what on earht are you all doing wih tis suiceide stuff

I thought about this thread through most of last night ( was working a night shift so was awake anyway!) and looking at the posts today- I find myself agreeing with Conniedescending.

I avoid them and most of the mental health ones too. I feel uncomfortable with people using a chat site to get advice adn support they should be seeking in rl.

I've just read through this thread and have to say I agree with the train of thought that MN is not the place for counselling suicidal people. Not that I'm unsympathetic but I strongly think it goes beyond the call of duty and an individuals capabilities.

I don't think it can be compared to truly altruistic behaviour like walking down the street and helping an injured individual for example.

People in RL distress need help from RL people and to argue otherwise is ridiculous. I also believe that people who have been in similar situations to those with strong suicidal thoughts are the worse ones able to give support and advice to others and be able to think reflectively about how MN deal with these problems.

I definitely think MN should seek advice on what to do should a post occur and whilst deleting and sending an auto-email is far from ideal I do think it's better than allowing the post to stand and letting whoever is about at the time take emotional responsibility for something beyond the realms of their control.

I read something about a charity initiative a couple of days ago that have launched a 24 hour suicide helpline. Perhaps they may be of help to MN hq about this situation or to those who feel they can no longer post on MN.

In France, there's a law relating to "not assisting people who are in danger", ie if you ignore or refuse to help someone in obvious need, you can find yourself in serious legal trouble. I don't know if a similar law exists in the UK but from what I've read on this thread, I would guess it doesn't.

not everyone has elsewhere to go though, thats the problem

if the op of these posts is a troll or emotional vampire thats the op's issues: i'd rather be suickered than leave someone be when they were in that crucial 5 minutes

And the legal stuff.... well MN own this site and their angle is their decision. For me, petrifying and horrid though it'd be, i'd tather try to save a life and take the consequences than not.

And does it matter if its for (rather ineffectual as we're mostly anon) show? or if some watchers / posters get a buzz?

its a life we're talking here!

but I acknowledge that for every me there needs to be a very worldly wise, wary ExPat on the other side... that is how balance is attained.

I never read those threads as i don't feel equipped to advise adn i don't think an internet forum is the right place for them.But i do come to |MN for a bit of light relief and advice and anything serious or personal goes elsewhere

i dont think id really noticed how much rubbernecking goes on tbh... im not great at dealing with misery. im nice if i see it, but avoid it usually.
i can totally see what this threads about in the light of this new (to me) info.

Interesting thread and yes, I agree that there is a certain amount of rubbernecking and also that MNHQ do need to look at this issue for their own protection.
(And Cod, a lot. Two words. Tsk.)

i agree wiht beetroot further down the thread that there is a lot of thei

"i am crying for oyu " stuff on here almost as if feelign someone's pain makes you feel inwardly smug as a mroe empathetic poster..

as i said to caitlin for that article " alot of stuff will be dragged out about how kind we all are to each other, but i htink a alot of that is for show tbh, most kind ness( as in rl) goes on behind the scenes of peoepl who dont want a fuss made"

amen.

I think wilfsell or someone made a very good point earlier which is that it's necessary to have a thread or two like this one where the people who weren't directly involved (but were upset or got caught up in it) can have a bit of a vent: debrief is a very good idea because one might not want to post on the original thread 'this is making me feel bad' because one would end up with a faceful of 'this is not about YOU how very DARE you' - but (as a general observation) it's often overlooked that the people who help out or are dealing with a severely depressed or mentally ill person need a big bucket of support themselves.
SO SPS hope you have somewhere to turn to for a bit of hugs, fluffiness and cake when you need it.

Slubber (not sure you will see this but...) I agree the thread has been mostly very well argued. I think it is pretty balanced both ways and tried to persuade my friend of that. However, by her very nature at the moment, she is not really in a position to see the positive comments. She will not be alone. It is mainly suicidal people who will really care about the outcome of this thread and they are the ones who are going to see the negatives rather than the positives...

I agree with you that the chat threads should not be used for that type of declaration. I think you are right in the reason they are used though: people are attracted to the idea that the thread will not exist in a few months. Well, that is easily solved: do the same for the mental health threads.

(Personally, when I want to post about feeling depressed, I use that topic deliberately, knowing that the only people who will see it will be the ones who made the decision not to hide the topic and who are more prepared to offer some sympathetic support).

I'm just going to post this and sign off for a while (RL needs attending too ).

I'm sorry if it makes me sound like an uncaring bitch.

I'm sorry if this thread has put other posters off (or caused them to de-register) from MN. On the whole it has been well balanced and non shouty and imformative. It is in site stuff, yes the thread title is in Cod's usual style, but the discussion needed to happen. I'm sure it is happening (or has, or will) on other forums of a similar nature to mn.

With regards to the points about using 'hide thread', taking responsibility for yourself, and mn being a forum to discuss handbags......

well

I'm pretty sure I am not the only mner who feels like this:

I use mn as a place of solice. I have things happening in my RL, that I am dealing with in RL. I never bring them here, because mn for me is all about handbags and cakes and the like. I have certain thread topics hidden because I just do not want to see them.

However, the suicide threads almost always happen in chat. Maybe this is to find the biggest pool of help (after all who has chat hidden), maybe it is because they go in 3 months, I don't know.

I see them, and then I have to choose to hide them or see them at the top of active convos. I think it was berolina further down who also said, this messes with my head. I have a real visceral reaction to hiding such a thread. I feel like the pharisee walking past the man on the ground. I find it really hard to keep posting away on inane silly issues with the knowledge that there is another mner who is considering ending her life that is hidden but 'still there' on the board.

This is my problem. I am not giving this problem to mnhq, and I am not saying it to let other posters know that I would rather then did not post. Quite the opposite. this is a free and open board, and people should absolutely be allowed to post whatever they like.

All I am trying to say as that these threads do have a sort of passive consequence to the nature of mn. And that those of us who are concerned about these threads (and enjoy talking about cake) are NOT all uncaring bitches.

Of course RL help needs to be given too. But my God some of you are naive! I don't have personal experience of this and I don't usually get involved in the suicidal threads on here and that is for one reason: because, by accident, it turns out I am friends with one of the suicidal people who very occasionally posts here.

Through her, I am aware that people who post on here probably have a tangled web of issues contributing to their mental health and they are very likely to have already rung their GP, asked for counselling, spoken to the Samaritans, and done a dozen other things to help themselves. The glib "ring your GP" response is rarely appropriate.

WRT my friend, I talk to her every day and I know the massive complexities of her problems. I also know the massive, all-encompassing extent to which she tries to access professional help. She is only one person and I have nothing else to judge things by (except maybe the pathetic response I had when I sought help for a phobia?) but, based on her experience, it would seem to me that the mental health provision out there is woefully inadequate.

So what is the answer? To say, "we are not qualified to give good advice?" To delete the thread? These are people who are desperate for some reassurance, a kindly word, a piece of love, however remotely given. I, for one, do not feel unqualified to give that.

The only part of this argument that I agree with is the rubbernecking that goes on and the collective hysteria that builds when someone posts. I don't actually approve of my friend posting here when she is in a state as it never ends well for her. But I guess she feels it will help when she starts posting and who am I to deny her that?

I strongly feel this whole thread, though I agree it discusses an important issue, is going to cause a lot of damage to the very people who are not equipped to take the knocks. If you are not happy posting on suicidal threads, if you don't like the look of them on your pc, if you think you are going to be sued for failing to prevent a suicide, there is a very effective "hide this thread" button you can press.

i am obviously a nutter because i would never turn my back on someone who is in terrible pain and can see no way out except death.Be thankful that you are not in their shoes.

I just hope that this thread doesn't put too many people off posting when they want a bit of support. It has made me think twice about doing it in future, for fear of being jumped on and criticised and called a nutter. Please, if you do not like the threads where people are feeling low, then avoid them.

There is something about people who get over involved and seem to take on the pain as their own - that worries me in these situations.

Samaritans are there day and night, they have a fantastic training (i used to be one) and will help you to work through your worries without telling you what to do or
advising you

of course
and it is hard to be the kind of person who can empathise with others when in distress if you have never experienced any difficulties in your life

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