what on earht are you all doing wih tis suiceide stuff

'yes, you're right, let's dismiss the opinions of mental health professionals straight away shall we? Why not? They obviously haven't got a clue because thousands of mentally ill people on the internet say so. I mean jesus. '

i actually refered to psychiatrists,not ALL MH professionals,in my post,and it was in response to your saying that a consultant psychiatrist(well,someone who claims to be one,i have never met the poster in RL so wouldnt know)has said the suicide threads are unhealthy.

I agree with the point you make in your first paragraph, madamez.

I do think, moreover, that Franny makes an extremely salient point in bringing up the issues attached with MNHQ tracking down posters when they are in life-threatening situations like suicide.

ONe objection people have raised is the possibility/probability that some of these threads might provide cheap thrills in some peope's otherwise boring little lives (just like the Jerry Springer or Tricia shows) - and I have to say, so fucking what? It's totally irrelevant and unimportant to what's actually going on with the sufferer if some people are sitting at home with a bag of maltesers hitting Refresh and widdling with excitement.

As to the 'leave it to the professionals' well, mental health professionals are just people. I have met a few. Many are great, know what they are doing, care about the clients, help a lot. Some I wouldn't trust to housetrain a hamster or get their own pants on in the morning. And the same with RL friends: sometimes someone might post on MN because the professionals are busy and the RL friends have all said 'look babe, would love to hear you tell me about it yet again but the baby's just shat on the carpet and the microwave's exploded, can we talk later in the week'
There are way too many variables for New Rules to be any use (a lesson I have long wished this fucking government would learn).

I steer clear of this 'suicide' threads anyway as when I once put my thoughts down on one, I was called a hard faced hooooar iirc

stick to discussions on shoes, much safer

But it is untrue if you're saying that posters are claiming that they don't want seriously depressed mothers to post on mn. I haven't seen anyone say that.
It's untrue to say those you disagree with have never experienced mental health problems or suicidal thoughts - you have no way of knowing, and several have contradicted you.
You're saying that people disagreeing with you have a 'them and us' attitude. A very unfair generalisation that is quite nasty to all the people raising this issue precisely because they ARE concerned about people getting actual real life help and not being caught up in a website circus that has the potential to delay them getting actual useful life saving help.

And you know, OO, that cod dressed in olive oil, pepper, sea salt and a drizzle of olive oil, then grilled for about 20 minutes, is very tasty with a salad and couscous.

It is objectively untrue. Plenty of us arguing that we are worried about these threads have dealt with mental illness either ourselves or in our families. You're absolutely objectively wrong there.

No, Thinkstoomuch, no. I'm actually offended. Insulted.

And this
'who don't want MN to be the forum for the seriously depressed mum'
is another gross misrepresentation.

how weird, I was going to start a thread on this very same subject last week

olive and cod, like two peas in a bitchy pod

Thinkstoomuch, if you call your posts to me yesterday 'thoughtful debate' then I shudder to see what you are like when you are not thoughtful.

Your perception is incorrect. I'm not afraid of mentally ill people/people who are suicidal. I want them to get the RIGHT help and I'm not convinced that using the board the way it is used and especially the scenario that Franny paints is the best way to achieve that.

x-posts with expat - yes, that's the bit. You can't be assuming to know the mental health of everyone you disagree with, is showing poor understanding of the argument.

Yes, but it's my perception. It's fair enough to say it's not your own stance, but not that it's objectively untrue.

''My perception of the posters who don't want MN to be the forum for the seriously depressed mum is their Them and Us mindset, by which I mean they can't identify whatsoever with what it's like to entertain suicidal thoughts. Fair enough, and good for them, but they therefore see those who have them as Other, categorised as 'the mentally ill', 'sick', etc. So their instinct is a fearful one: go elsewhere, see an expert (some saying it with compassion, some not).''

That is the bit that isn't true. IMHO.

This part, Thinks:
'My perception of the posters who don't want MN to be the forum for the seriously depressed mum is their Them and Us mindset, by which I mean they can't identify whatsoever with what it's like to entertain suicidal thoughts.'

A lot of people who are at the point of suicide become remarkably clear-headed.

I know I did. It's like a black cloud lifting, 'Eureka! I found the way out! I won't have to feel like this anymore.'

You're past depression, you're so ill you often think quite rationally about your demise, and, as the psychiatrist pointed out, even go to lengths to avoid detection whilst you make your plans.

Not all, of course not, not everyone will behave in the same way.

Some people have pointed out that they don't feel comfortable posting on threads about miscarriage or stillbirth because of their own experiences.

The same applies on suicide threads. And everyone knows I'm a familiar name on the mental health topics.

But I've said time and again when someone is suicidal and posts on here and then puts off getting RL help - avoiding the police, etc. - there's a problem with these threads and they're not healthy at the least.

Which bit is untrue?

Thinkstoomuch you're making some incorrect assumptions about posters then. No way is there a them and us attitude. No way is anyone saying that depression and mental health issues shouldn't be discussed and support given. Like Dittany, you are not listening. I've certainly had my fair share of supporting someone through the mental health system and through serious life threatening depression, I know what's available and what isn't and although it's not ideal, Id trust it more than any alternative.

People are ONLY talking about the acute suicide threads, where someone is talking about taking their own life, threatening to do it then and there. And no one is talking about shunning that person - but they need to realise that there ARE options for them, there is real life help available, adn be supported to persue that straight away rather than think that mn can provide an alternative.

don't get me wrong - I think MNHQ have done the best they can in every situation, and I am glad they have gone to the effort of contacting posters etc

but this could really lead to disaster at some point
it's very tricky

Franny - yes that is absolutely utterly my concern with these threads too. I have no beef whatever with those people severely affected by mental illness posting and getting support on here - it's the life or death situations that trouble me.

I agree, F&Z. It's impossible for MNHQ to take action (and therefore responsibility) for sucidal threads. Perhaps they shouldn't intervene at all.

'My perception of the posters who don't want MN to be the forum for the seriously depressed mum is their Them and Us mindset, by which I mean they can't identify whatsoever with what it's like to entertain suicidal thoughts. Fair enough, and good for them, but they therefore see those who have them as Other, categorised as 'the mentally ill', 'sick', etc. So their instinct is a fearful one: '

Categorically and completely untrue.

And people who are suicidal are beyond seriously depressed.

They are in a life-threatening, emergency situation.

THAT is the difference people have tried time and again to get across.

But it's continually shot down as being uncaring and devoid of compassion.

Good old Cod! She must be delighted with the debate. Trust her to throw the subtle hand-grenade & then run!

I think there could also be a problem with the OP EXPECTING that MN will track them down and stop them
if this happens sometimes they may well believe there is a strategy in place to enable this ALWAYS to happen
people do sometimes make gesture suicide attempts, either partly or completely wanting to be saved
it's a dangerous business to allow people to think they can come on here, announce they've taken an od, and that other posters or MNHQ will trace them and send an ambulance

Dittany and DaddyJ - you've had some stick, so just wanted to say I wholeheartedly agree with what you have posted.

And let's not be revisionist about the way this thread has gone - it started with some terribly offhand, undoubtedly uncompassionate posts and has since turned into a thoughtful debate.

My perception of the posters who don't want MN to be the forum for the seriously depressed mum is their Them and Us mindset, by which I mean they can't identify whatsoever with what it's like to entertain suicidal thoughts. Fair enough, and good for them, but they therefore see those who have them as Other, categorised as 'the mentally ill', 'sick', etc. So their instinct is a fearful one: go elsewhere, see an expert (some saying it with compassion, some not). My own background makes me feel more affinity and so my instinct, and that of many others here, is to reach out and try to help through shared experience.

If this wasn't a web forum and we were all just in a room together, I'd do the same.

yes, you're right, let's dismiss the opinions of mental health professionals straight away shall we? Why not? They obviously haven't got a clue because thousands of mentally ill people on the internet say so. I mean jesus.