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So how about a "Rationality, Scepticism & Atheism" section?

117 replies

UnquietDad · 29/05/2008 15:19

Where people can actually have sensible discussions about the debunking of the paranormal, and the lack of evidence for any of the crystal-healing-aura-chakra-reiki-throw-your-hands-in the-air-and-say woooooooooo healing rubbish.

Because I'm getting fed up with trying to remind the people in Philosophy, Religion and Woo that we actually live in the 21st Century.

OP posts:
AMumInScotland · 29/05/2008 15:55

Plenty of religious people are perfectly capable of talking about science

Swedes · 29/05/2008 15:55

UQD - Are you really "getting fed up with trying"? You seem to enjoy flexing your militant atheist credentials.

I agree with Jeremy Vile.

Blandmum · 29/05/2008 15:55

That is the one!

UnquietDad · 29/05/2008 15:54

MartianB : is that what you were after?

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JeremyVile · 29/05/2008 15:53

What??

That is the shittiest argument ever

UnquietDad · 29/05/2008 15:53

MB
That link won't work!
But if it's the Science vs Faith diagram, then yes!

JeremyVile: I'll stop talking about religion when the religious stop talking about science.

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AMumInScotland · 29/05/2008 15:52

I suspect that most people who post in that section disagree with at least 80% of the others, but the problem is, Which 80%? Personally, despite being a Christian, I disagree with at least 95% of it, with the extra 15% made up of lots of other Christians..... So what you gonna do? Mostly I leave them to it....

I'd be happy to try to discuss philosophy if anyone's up for it, but I start from a very ignorant position so it would have to start with a lot of explanation before we could get a real debate going

Lazycow · 29/05/2008 15:52

Rationality & scepticism do NOT necessarily go hand in hand with atheism, though I will admit that an atheist is most likely more spiritually developed and aware than someone who is a literalist in religious terms (many evangelical christians would fall into this category_

I like James Fowler's model of faith which is independent of religion as such.

[[http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/2219.ht

UnquietDad · 29/05/2008 15:51

Lazycow - I disagree with you, totally!

Atheism absolutely is not a statement of faith. There are several reasons for this.

I cannot prove a negative. It is philosophically impossible. The fact that I'm often asked to do this doesn't mean I have lost the argument - it just means I am being asked to do something philosophically impossible. It has no bearing on the argument - you might as well say I have lost the argument because I cannot float 6 inches above the ground.

Atheism is not a position arrived at without rational thought. It is arrived at through weighing the evidence. If contrary evidence were to be presented, I and other atheists I know would weight it up and, if necessary, change our position. This is what scientists do with hypothesis/experiment ALL THE TIME. It's just that nobody has, as yet, presented sufficient evidence.

There are two pairs of things people confuse when talking about God.

  1. Proof/evidence. Obviously you cannot "prove" a negative, so sensible atheists neither present nor demand proof. What we demand is evidence.

Analogy: You cannot prove there is no Loch Ness Monster - lack of sightings could merely prove that she is very good at hiding or is capable of making herself invisible. But you can weigh up the evidence for (some anecdotes some blurry photos and some shaky film) and the evidence against (a comprehensive, 500-probe sonar sweep of the loch done a few years ago which produced nothing). Of course that doesn't prove there is no Nessie - you cannot prove a negative. But it makes her existence as unlikely as you can reasonably show.

  1. Probability/likelihood. The question "Does God exist?" has two answers - yes or no. Some people argue that this is a 50/50 split, and can never be resolved one way or the other. But that's just mathematical probability - the answer would be the same if the question were "Does Thor exist?" or "Does the loch Ness Monster exist?" or "Does Wighjggygrkgkll exist?" The thing you need to look at is the likelihood - and God's existence can be demonstrated to be very, very unlikely.

Analogy: The World Cup. Each team has a 1/32 chance (probability) of winning. But Trinidad & Tobago (say) don't have the same likelihood of winning as Brazil. They have, I imagine, about a 200-1 likelihood, based on their team's previous form. Brazil have about a 2-1 likelihood. So Brazil are 100 times more likely to win the World Cup than T&T. You can bet on T&T winning if you like, but it's very, very unlikely.

OP posts:
JeremyVile · 29/05/2008 15:50

UQD - why are you such an arse about all this?
Most of us who don't believe are quite happy to accept that others choose a different way of being. Why can't you?

stuffitllama · 29/05/2008 15:49

UQD I will pray for you

sfxmum · 29/05/2008 15:48

ok KC let's have a fight then you lid dem atheist waste of space you

Swedes · 29/05/2008 15:48

Threadie - We always end up discussing Wittgenstein and that other Kant in Pedants' Corner.

Threadwworm · 29/05/2008 15:45

Someone should really start a discussion about philosophy in the Phil,rel,spirit topic.

MrsBadger · 29/05/2008 15:44

I remember that thread MB, but I do remember wondering whether the poster was just suggestible by nature:

'Get your DNA activated, it's great'
'Oh ok I will'
'No don't it's all bollocks'
'Oh ok I won't'
'Have reiki it's fab'
'Oh ok then'
'No don't it's all bollocks'
'Oh ok then'...

Blandmum · 29/05/2008 15:40

try again

Kewcumber · 29/05/2008 15:39

the stress of not posting on a thread about crystals is making my eyebrows ache.

Blandmum · 29/05/2008 15:38

oh bugger, that didn't work!

Blandmum · 29/05/2008 15:38

UD, was it you who introduced me to

this? if so, many,many thanks

Lazycow · 29/05/2008 15:37

I so take issue that Atheism is a rational view. I say again it is a statement of faith. Obviously no-one agrees or even feels it is worth diagreeing with so I shall go and sulk.

UnquietDad · 29/05/2008 15:37

The James Randi Educational Forum seems to do pretty well.

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UnquietDad · 29/05/2008 15:36

Perhaps it could all be merged into a general section to be called "Assorted Cobblers"?

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Kewcumber · 29/05/2008 15:36

"it was a bit samey after a while" - and religion isn't?

Why... insert question of your choice...?
Because its Gods will.

SFX are you calling me a waste of space? Well are you, are you? [pathetically trying to be aggressive emoticon]

nkf · 29/05/2008 15:35

But left alone, there's nothing much to say surely. Unless you draw up rankings of which beliefs annoy you most. Or recite stories of other people's belief. And even that will pall pretty soon. You need believers.

UnquietDad · 29/05/2008 15:35

Swedes? I did not hyphenate!

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