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Original poster

Unacceptable word.

63 replies

theheadgirl · 26/04/2008 19:37

To MN HQ:
Many of us have contacted you, to express the opinion that the word "mong" should not be acceptable.
In the thread in question, the poster, who I am sure meant nothing derogatory, used the phrase "to mong out in front of the TV"
It has been suggested that this meant nothing more than to "veg" out.
However, this word derives from the word "mongol", which many years ago was the acceptable medical term to describe Down Syndrome. Thankfully the medical profession no longer use the word.
As the mother of a beautful, lively girl with Down Syndrome, (who never, ever "mongs" anywhere!) I find this a vile word. It is one that reminds me of the way that those with learning difficulties are sometimes labelled, are treated as 2nd class, and are denied any individuality. Ignorance of its history should not mean it can be continued to be used. Look at the picture of my girl on my profile and ask yourself - would you be happy to hear the word used?
If you feel that this word is unacceptable please add your name to this thread.

OP posts:
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ChocFudgeCake · 03/05/2008 22:22

I agree too. Although I had never heard it before, or maybe I just didn't register. But I have heard it in Spanish, not to often, and in Italian, a lot!

Your DS3 is lovely, btw

Christie · 27/04/2008 13:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Janni · 27/04/2008 12:25

Sorry THG - I just found this thread.

I totally agree with theheadgirl about how unacceptable it is to use this term on MN and am glad that MNHQ have removed it from the original thread.

mshadowsisfab · 27/04/2008 12:11

theheadgirl once again you have made a very good point.
people always point out how there are people with cp who call the selves spazz's(sp)
dd will never have the vocabulary to use that expresion and I have never heard any of her talking freinds use that expresion.
so like the word mong it is unaceptable. And i am glad at last mn have listened(thank you mn)

BreevandercampLGJ · 27/04/2008 11:57

Sorry I missed this HG, and well done for pursuing it, the lack of education on MN is truly astounding sometimes.

Original poster
theheadgirl · 27/04/2008 11:50

Thanks to everyone who responded here, this is important to me for obvious reasons. Again thanks to MN for their actions

On the other thread its been suggested that the use of this word is akin to the way the gay community have reclaimed the word "queer", the black community the "n" word and that wheelchair users choose to refer to themselves as "cripples".
I disagree. The above groups have a level of self awareness which means they have taken their respective "labels", and have used them with a feeling of "in your face" sophistication to show they are so much more than the words that were historically used against them.
Its not the case with a learning disability. My daughter will naver have the sophistication to choose to call herself or her behaviour a "mong". As her mother and advocate, I will never choose this word on her behalf.
So thats it. I'll shut up now. Thanks again everyone.

OP posts:
outonalimb · 26/04/2008 21:25

I dont post often, but felt compelled to add my tuppence-worth to this debate. It saddens me that many people are intimating that the offensiveness of particular words are largely defined by the user. I find that line of rationale as being too simplistic. I do agree that the debate of these threads has a lot of educational capabilities. So to delete them would not necessarily be the most effective way of addressing this.

Many people using these words do so out of ignorance, and I suggest that featuring a list of offensive words, perhaps at the top of the screen under 'useful stuff' may be a positive way forward. Under the heading, maybe these threads could be listed. That way, it is likely that someone using such a word could be directed to 'offensive words', via a link to 'offensive words' or a relevant thread within 'offensive words' so they can see the effects of such word usage. (Am I making any sense?)

This suggestion means also that as 'new' offensive words become used on here, it will be undoubtedly debated and anyone who is offended can request to have the offending word added to the list and the thread attached to it.

I think one of the most useful things about these debates is when someone posts something like: "Ive always used that word and didnt realise its meaning or that it offends, but now I understand i've stopped using it." That is important because it isnt always easy for people in RL or MN to challenge peoples percetions and use of words that have become entrenched into the language of some others.

Remotew · 26/04/2008 20:35

I've used the terms veg out and chinky before in RL but must admit felt a bit uncomfortable with both. After this I wont use either again.

doggiesayswoof · 26/04/2008 20:26

Fair enough washersaurus. Sorry, my last post to you was a bit rude. Apologies for that

Blandmum · 26/04/2008 20:25

There was a thread on MN a while ago on the negativity of saying, 'I'm having a chinky' rather than saying 'I'm having a chinese meal'

If I'm being 100% honest I had never considered it an offensive thing to say but Chinese people said it was, so fine, a chinese take away it is from now on.

Not hard is it?

Washersaurus · 26/04/2008 20:25

As I said, I do not use the terms I mentioned (I'm fairly educated don't y'know , but have heard all of them in general usage.

I will remove myself from this thread now as I appear to be upsetting people, for which I apologise.

Remotew · 26/04/2008 20:25

I know the origins of the name and thankfully its totally gone out of use. I've never heard the term used in the offending post.

I've know that kids are using equally offensive terms nowadays and it cannot be stopped but agree that this has no place on mumsnet so support your request.

doggiesayswoof · 26/04/2008 20:23

Washer - what are you saying here - they said 'epi' on eastenders so it must be ok? Use your loaf

marina · 26/04/2008 20:23

Washersaurus, it's obvious that sometimes words or phrases are used by people who genuinely did not realise their origins/connotations or whatever. Often people apologise and that's the end of it
Speaking personally, I found it upsetting that when the offensiveness of the term was pointed out, quite a few people told the poster to stop being PC, pedantic, oversensitive etc
That's why there is a furore this time IMO

cocosquarepants · 26/04/2008 20:22

I would think the term ' a vegetable' for someone on life support, is no longer acceptable.

sarah293 · 26/04/2008 20:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

doggiesayswoof · 26/04/2008 20:21

Washersaurus it's pretty simple - if you don't want to upset or offend anyone, then don't use it

cocosquarepants · 26/04/2008 20:20

washer - I'm presuming you've never seen a loved one have a seizure.

Washersaurus · 26/04/2008 20:19

I didn't see the the thread or post in question so I suppose I shouldn't comment at all.

As I said I don't wish to offend anyone. I do not use the term myself but have always heard it in general usage (and not as an insult or label).

I'm just trying to work out what is acceptable; so it IS ok to say 'veg out' then? Does that not come from the term 'vegetable' used for someone on life support machines? Why is that not offensive?

Do people who have epilepsy dislike the use of the term 'having an epi'?

northernrefugee39 · 26/04/2008 20:19

Martian , I agree. Anything with a connotation which places one person above another for any reason , isn't an over reaction.
People who think it is , maybe haven't been in a position where the words have been used.
Words are very powerful.
(Dr. Down sounds horrifyingly like ... whispering...Steiner and his race theory.)

PeachyHas4BoysAndLovesIt · 26/04/2008 20:18

Washer, I wouldn't use epi fit, no. Used to say something similar until someone pointed it out and I felt awful, apologised and never would again.

It's not 'just a word'. Words have immense power, and not only influence behaviour but have a shared, reinforcing effect where people think that if someone else uses it then it must be OK.

sarah293 · 26/04/2008 20:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Blu · 26/04/2008 20:16

well, I have no sympathy with people who beliigerently stake out their 'right' to sue language once they know it is derogatory, insulting and offensive.

It IS a bloody horrible term, and having had a quick skate through the 145 uses that Whizz searched, I am happy to say that in the majority of cases it is either promptly challenged - and apologised for, is used in " "s as reported speech of someone and the poster is shocked / critical of it's use, is twice used for a Chinese town (Mong Kok), and by two separate people as a typo for 'long'!

I am not at allsurprised that parents of children with DS are outraged by any acceptance of causual use of this word, and i will certainly challenge it where I find it.

MNHQ
AbbyMumsnet · 26/04/2008 20:15

I haven't been on duty since Wednesday but, as I understand it, this was originally left because one of the team felt that the subsequent debate (as to why such a comment is unacceptable) would go a long way to educating the Mumsnet community. I think she felt that deleting the OP would render the thread nonsensical and, consequently, any subsequent educational element would be lost. That said, I think I remember a general email from either Justine or Carrie saying the post should go - and I agree. So just to make it perfectly clear - no, we really, really don't think it's an acceptable term, and any decision to leave the post was done with a good motive - but, in hindsight, maybe we should have deleted it when it was first reported.

Original poster
theheadgirl · 26/04/2008 20:15

Washer - yes I am offended and upset by this. You are obviously untouched by how such a "label" can be offensive.
It is often considered cool and laid back to let others say whatever they wish without questioning how it affects others. I disagree. My problem was not so much with the OP. But if she did know the word's history and how it can upset, then Yes, overreacting or not, my problem is with her.

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