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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

References to underage sex on Sex board

362 replies

BenCoopersSupportWren · 23/02/2023 23:02

I haven’t been following the Sex topics in Active furore too closely, beyond agreeing on one of the early threads that it would be better for the Board to revert to the way it was - out of Active, with a longer qualifying time to be able to post.

However I’ve just read a thread which, on the face of it, is just reminiscing about posters’ ‘first times’ but which includes numerous disclosures of underage sex, including some that involved grooming, and one or two that are genuinely heartbreaking testimonies of child sexual abuse. They are particularly jarring interspersed as they are between end-of-pier type humour and jokes of others’ experience.

As I just posted there: “there is a reason most ‘mainstream’ dedicated end-user sex sites like Literotica, BDSMLR etc don’t allow stories or posts that are explicit about underage sex even when clearly written by adults, and will remove such posts when brought to the moderators’ attention. I used to work in the CJS and I’m afraid to say that such descriptions - even when expressed in short and simple terms - have currency among paedophiles. Part of my job was keeping the video testimony of CSA victims and any associated transcripts locked away so that they didn’t fall into the wrong hands. Unfortunately it’s not just explicit photos and videos that they get off to.”

For clarity, by “explicit about underage sex” I mean making specific reference to, not that the material has to be particularly sexually explicit. The exact same thread would simply not be allowed to stand on Literotica’s chat forum, for example.

While there have always been examples in other parts of the site of posters making disclosures of having been abused, that is a very different thing to sharing it in a section that only the most naive or wilfully obtuse would deny will be used in part for titillation. My issue isn’t that the thread is particularly sexually explicit - it mostly isn’t, and I’m pretty broad-minded… in context. But no one could argue that “where did you lose your virginity?” is masquerading as a support / how to / informative thread; it’s for entertainment and kicks only, be the latter humour or a sexual thrill. (A few posters on that thread have been supportive to those who disclosed their abuse, but ‘support’ is clearly not the original purpose of the thread.)

IMO it is extremely remiss of MN to disregard the ‘good practice’ rules that other sex sites maintain for handling material relating to references to underage sex/CSA, both because of the type of person attracted to those sites if such rules aren’t in place and from a liability / arse-covering perspective. This, combined with the lack of any age verification or warning for that part of the site, makes it even more obvious that MN don’t understand what is involved in safely and legally hosting a ‘sex chat site’ or part thereof.

OP posts:
WombsofWimbledon · 24/02/2023 15:53

BIWI · 24/02/2023 11:59

@EmmaEmerald I posted about LinkedIn yesterday - drawing attention to the number of senior people at MN who are responsible for things like Brand Partnerships, Growth, Revenue Growth, Strategic Planning.

In other words, it's no haphazard coincidence that the site is developing the way it is.

That’s a double edged sword of trying to increase monetization and revenue at the same time as being resources that cost a fortune. Who cares if you keep the loyal, longtime customers, if you can, at least briefly, invite a large, new crowd.

WombsofWimbledon · 24/02/2023 15:50

Where are the mansplainers / pervs coming from? I get why showing up in Active is making the threads visible to existing users, and how reducing the number of days as a member to post in them is exacerbating it - but why are there so many more actually posting? Has something changed in Mumsnet’s advertising / visibility in searches etc?

I laughed at the inappropriateness of the ‘get back into the saddle, new mother, sorry, vulva haver’ vibrator and was annoyed by the visibility of the sex threads (but didn’t have a problem when they weren’t, ahem, in my face) but what I didn’t expect was the speed of the influx of men.

I’ve been here for years under copious names and will try to follow if people leave. I’d miss FWR and some other long running threads I post on under different names.

MrsTerryPratchett · 24/02/2023 15:35

Like yours, my husband also has the mumsnet app on his phone and he sometimes browses and sends me links to threads. I think he likes it because the female nature of the space makes the tone and vibe very different from places he usually frequents - also because it helps him understand my point of view on a range of issues.

I remember when DH realised how good MN was. It was when that plane went down and couldn't be found. M, something. He was pontificating about it and I said, "oh MN says blah blah", he looked confused and I said, "well there are a million women on there, including flight nerds, air traffic controllers, pilots and others who know a lot". We (of course) were right. And he then started on any zeitgeist or current issue, to ask.

He sometimes suggests something I can post from his area of expertise. I often say, "that's OK dear they've covered that". Grin

lurchermummy · 24/02/2023 15:35

Agree - this struck me when I saw the thread

BubziOwl · 24/02/2023 15:30

@MrsTerryPratchett , your post just now is a more eloquent version of something I've posted on a similar thread about this issue (or was it this one?! Cba to check).

In my post I just said that I wanted a female space and I didn't like the increased amount of men posting. But you've got the nuance in your post - there's a few prolific male posters I can actually think of that do add value to the site. But apart from those select few, when men turn up they tend to change the atmosphere drastically.

Like yours, my husband also has the mumsnet app on his phone and he sometimes browses and sends me links to threads. I think he likes it because the female nature of the space makes the tone and vibe very different from places he usually frequents - also because it helps him understand my point of view on a range of issues.

He never posts anything, because why would he want to? Why are other men incapable of keeping their nose out of spaces not intended for them?!

MrsTerryPratchett · 24/02/2023 15:30

Northernsouloldies · 24/02/2023 15:25

I've asked for my post to be removed. No offence or sarcasm was intended.

'Sorry I spoke' was sarcastic. Come on, own it.

And don't get it removed, it is very instructive of exactly what we're saying. It's not your fault you were socialised male. We just want a corner of the internet that isn't all about men.

IsItBedtimeYetNope · 24/02/2023 15:29

Where is @MNHQ on this? If you're charging for a membership and have a section that's for sexual stuff, you need to do it responsibly and follow the same rules as the rest of the adult portion of the internet!

greenspaces4peace · 24/02/2023 15:27

Shocked not shocked no MN reply.
100% agree with @BenCoopersSupportWren

Northernsouloldies · 24/02/2023 15:25

I've asked for my post to be removed. No offence or sarcasm was intended.

Bamboux · 24/02/2023 15:25

Northernsouloldies · 24/02/2023 15:12

Sorry I spoke.

This response is SO familiar to any woman who's ever been in a relationship with a man.

TangledWebOfDeception · 24/02/2023 15:23

I’m sure there are some rooms you would definitely be able to read @lummsnet.

(I actually intensely dislike that phrase, but I’m so irritated by the current state of MN that I’ve used it twice in the space of 5 min!)

lummsnet · 24/02/2023 15:20

To be fair, I'm shit at reading the room and I'm definitely female.

feellikeanalien · 24/02/2023 15:19

@BenCoopersSupportWren

Thank you for this. I've been thinking the same. Being bombarded with ads for sex toys and tips on how to have better sex when you've just given birth in the list of Active topics is not the reason I joined Mumsnet. I haven't looked at the Sex board recently but it sounds really grim.

I'd be sad to go particularly because of FWR but also my guilty pleasure of the Royal Family topic. I do wonder if Mumsnet is being targeted because it allows debate, particularly on FWR, which is not allowed on many other forums.

That wouldn't explain the response of MNHQ though. Sadly I fear that other pps who have said that it may be under different ownership may be correct.

When I first joined Mumsnet I really found the advice helpful and my eyes were opened to many issues. I also enjoyed the humour on a lot of the threads. Sadly that seems to have gone and it is becoming more and more difficult to engage in lively debate rather than mud slinging if someone doesn't agree with your views.

I think the fact that MNHQ have not commented on this thread speaks volumes.

TangledWebOfDeception · 24/02/2023 15:18

You could have read the room couldn’t you...

(except no, you probably couldn’t, and herein lies the issue)

’Hmmm here’s a thread on a site built for women, where women are quite reasonably angry because said site is being turned into some sex and sex toy hub/weirdo creep magnet, and I think the best thing for me to do, as a man, is wade in and talk about me and what I want and why I’m here.’

Instead of sarcastically apologising for speaking out of turn, you could have just not spoken out of turn!

Northernsouloldies · 24/02/2023 15:12

MrsTerryPratchett · 24/02/2023 14:59

And?

There have always been men on here. A few lovely ones who don't feel the need to tell us constantly, don't post walls of text, don't have to announce their special relationship with information, and don't think we're all thick. DH lurks about asking 'what MN thinks about X' because he knows the answer will be funny, intelligent and have perspectives his male sites don't.

But discussion changes when men show up in droves. They just believe they know best, are uniquely placed to explain, ad nauseum, with walls of text. We know already , they are everywhere else 'explaining'. Here we get to talk without them. Without them thinking we don't agree because they just haven't explained it simply and oddly enough.

And being a man you must be aware how much male sexuality is promoted, encouraged and feted, and how damaging it is. I've posted places everywhere from boards about travelling to feminism and received pervy DMs. Say you're a woman on a gaming site and prepare for violence and sexual content.

This was a little oasis. When @BIWI et al bugger off (and PM me where they're going, please) I may too. I've posted thousands of times, and am a premium member. I can't be the only one.

Sorry I spoke.

MrsTerryPratchett · 24/02/2023 14:59

This reply has been deleted

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

And?

There have always been men on here. A few lovely ones who don't feel the need to tell us constantly, don't post walls of text, don't have to announce their special relationship with information, and don't think we're all thick. DH lurks about asking 'what MN thinks about X' because he knows the answer will be funny, intelligent and have perspectives his male sites don't.

But discussion changes when men show up in droves. They just believe they know best, are uniquely placed to explain, ad nauseum, with walls of text. We know already , they are everywhere else 'explaining'. Here we get to talk without them. Without them thinking we don't agree because they just haven't explained it simply and oddly enough.

And being a man you must be aware how much male sexuality is promoted, encouraged and feted, and how damaging it is. I've posted places everywhere from boards about travelling to feminism and received pervy DMs. Say you're a woman on a gaming site and prepare for violence and sexual content.

This was a little oasis. When @BIWI et al bugger off (and PM me where they're going, please) I may too. I've posted thousands of times, and am a premium member. I can't be the only one.

Christmaspyjamas · 24/02/2023 14:49

@MNHQ are hoping to get a lot of major media coverage out of the ongoing debate over the Sex page.

The furore and disagreement is essential to their purposes.

That's why they won't take action and won't explain...they need to enflame users and then go on Lorraine and Loose Women to discuss 'objectively' the split in their base. It's just an extension of their PR strategy for the last 2 years.

It's not about advertisers.

SoupDragon · 24/02/2023 14:49

Bamboux · 24/02/2023 12:19

They've posted a grand total of 18 posts since the end of last year (which was 2 months ago).

Incidentally, my post just got deleted on that thread simply for asking them to clarify that what they wanted was for other users to share stories of their own adolescent children's sexual experiences and porn use. I'll repeat that. My post was deleted. But the thread asking for people to share those stories is still there.

No, they had been posting since May last year.

Northernsouloldies · 24/02/2023 14:25

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Bamboux · 24/02/2023 14:03

Thanks for doing this. I've registered and am waiting for the confirmation email to arrive.

MySugarBabyLove · 24/02/2023 13:37

Still no word from mnHQ? @justineMumsnet care to explain?

TangledWebOfDeception · 24/02/2023 13:06

I wonder if we need to discuss this outside of the Site Stuff topic. I expect a lot of women aren’t aware of these latest developments (if they’ve somehow managed to miss sex and toys being shoved into our faces every two minutes).

Igotjelly · 24/02/2023 13:06

I'm very surprised that this hasn't been picked up by the papers yet. Usually the Mail would be all over something like this.

beastlyslumber · 24/02/2023 13:00

I can't believe what @MNHQ are doing. It seems so stupid and destructive. Could you comment, please, MN, on your rationale for allowing these kinds of threads to stand, and for the lack of safeguards in general around the sex topic?

SproutingAbout · 24/02/2023 12:47

Theredfoxfliesatmidnight · 24/02/2023 11:47

I'm really sad that men that get off on stories of paedophilia, grooming and underage sex have ended up on mumsnet, but not surprised. This is a parenting site. The only men that are going to specifically choose a parenting site for their sex chat, who are going to specifically seek out women with children to sex chat with, who are going to overlook the thousands of sex chat sites out there to specifically target mums, if having children is their main sex chat search criteria - why are we surprised that some of them might have an unhealthy interest in children, or might be wanting access to children? This seems to have been quite overlooked in the general discussion.

Who wants a wank and searches "parenting"? These are the new men coming to the mumsnet sex boards.

I raised this point a few days ago and was quietly ignored.

I too think it's questionable (to say the least) that a man looking for sexual gratification uses a parenting site to do so. I'm amazed that MN don't realise that.