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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

References to underage sex on Sex board

362 replies

BenCoopersSupportWren · 23/02/2023 23:02

I haven’t been following the Sex topics in Active furore too closely, beyond agreeing on one of the early threads that it would be better for the Board to revert to the way it was - out of Active, with a longer qualifying time to be able to post.

However I’ve just read a thread which, on the face of it, is just reminiscing about posters’ ‘first times’ but which includes numerous disclosures of underage sex, including some that involved grooming, and one or two that are genuinely heartbreaking testimonies of child sexual abuse. They are particularly jarring interspersed as they are between end-of-pier type humour and jokes of others’ experience.

As I just posted there: “there is a reason most ‘mainstream’ dedicated end-user sex sites like Literotica, BDSMLR etc don’t allow stories or posts that are explicit about underage sex even when clearly written by adults, and will remove such posts when brought to the moderators’ attention. I used to work in the CJS and I’m afraid to say that such descriptions - even when expressed in short and simple terms - have currency among paedophiles. Part of my job was keeping the video testimony of CSA victims and any associated transcripts locked away so that they didn’t fall into the wrong hands. Unfortunately it’s not just explicit photos and videos that they get off to.”

For clarity, by “explicit about underage sex” I mean making specific reference to, not that the material has to be particularly sexually explicit. The exact same thread would simply not be allowed to stand on Literotica’s chat forum, for example.

While there have always been examples in other parts of the site of posters making disclosures of having been abused, that is a very different thing to sharing it in a section that only the most naive or wilfully obtuse would deny will be used in part for titillation. My issue isn’t that the thread is particularly sexually explicit - it mostly isn’t, and I’m pretty broad-minded… in context. But no one could argue that “where did you lose your virginity?” is masquerading as a support / how to / informative thread; it’s for entertainment and kicks only, be the latter humour or a sexual thrill. (A few posters on that thread have been supportive to those who disclosed their abuse, but ‘support’ is clearly not the original purpose of the thread.)

IMO it is extremely remiss of MN to disregard the ‘good practice’ rules that other sex sites maintain for handling material relating to references to underage sex/CSA, both because of the type of person attracted to those sites if such rules aren’t in place and from a liability / arse-covering perspective. This, combined with the lack of any age verification or warning for that part of the site, makes it even more obvious that MN don’t understand what is involved in safely and legally hosting a ‘sex chat site’ or part thereof.

OP posts:
LucyLeave · 25/02/2023 12:09

Now you just need to get rid of the hook up thread.

daisychain01 · 25/02/2023 12:08

I’m not happy to have a sex chat thread here, period. I’m not happy for new mothers to be aggressively targeted with sex toy ads using nasty, dehumanising and ideologically motivated wording, I’m not happy with the Ann Summers collab, and I’m incensed that there wasn’t a team of specifically savvy moderators appointed to oversee the sex chat thread/sex topic as soon as the change was made to registration time, if they were so determined to let it stand.

you aren't alone in having a visceral hatred of the direction of travel on here. I'm actually surprised and to a degree, gratified by the degree of antithesis expressed by many MNers to the "new features" ahem, given that there has been a prevailing culture of self-declared porn use apologists (I abhor porn and can't stand being gas lit by people who say "every man uses porn, you DH does he just doesnt tell you about it") and attitudes that I can't align with. I would have thought most people would say meh what's the problem, but it is a problem There seems to be nowhere on the internet to escape to.

I've long-since recognised that my values are so 'old hat' (and increasingly incompatible with the opinions of the majority) that I have often held back posting my opinions, because I'd be shouted down. This is probably the only thread I've known that articulates the disgust we feel about being regaled with vibrator adverts, toys for the bedroom, combined with the vile woman-denying vocabulary.

It does feel like selling your soul to the devil and condoning it by staying on here. I guess, for me, I will watch and wait to see if any improvements and tightening up of the regs and moderation, gives me a greater comfort factor they are listening to our concerns.

MassiveWordSalad · 25/02/2023 12:08

That's a start.

Maybe I'm being paranoid but no mention of the Ann Summers collaboration there. No MLMs are one of the specific things mentioned in mumsnet's mission statement.

No mention of the hook-up thread and its perv content.

ProbablyNotAGoodIdea · 25/02/2023 12:00

I think that will make a lot of people happy and agree it's about tone and feel, which this can only improve for all users. Thanks, this is the outcome I think most people want.

onirgellep · 25/02/2023 11:59

Thank you @JustineMumsnet that's good news indeed

lovem · 25/02/2023 11:46

Removing from active is great news @JustineMumsnet, thank you, as is looking at safeguarding more and thinking about tone and feel of the site.

JustineMumsnet · 25/02/2023 11:44

Hi again... Wow so this took off overnight! It's pretty clear from the strength of feeling and reaction to my post that this isn't so much about the actual affects of moving the Sex topic into Active, or the fact that individually you can avoid seeing it by hiding it, it's as much about tone and feel of the site. As such it seems to me there's no point us waiting for the data and so we'll remove Sex from active shortly.

One of the issues that we've got is that Active is very much the home page of Mumsnet for many - and as ComeTheFckOnBridget says lots of other sites do this differently.

When we launched follow topics last month, many users asked for a way to see a feed of the latest threads from the topics they're following - we're working on that feature at the moment and it will be ready to launch soon and I think over time it could be that Active then evolves to become more of an index and less of a landing page. But we'll see how the introduction of feed goes and what the take up is like before thinking about any further changes.

One thing that's been useful about this discussion is that it's made it clear we should formalise our guidelines on how we moderate the Sex board. As we've said, we have not, over the years, had any particular issues with this board (wrt to pervs, sex pests etc) but I agree we could communicate some clearer boundaries with regard to safeguarding and expected behaviour, so thanks to all who've mentioned that - we'll get on to asap.

Something I want to put on record is that this decision to move Sex threads into Active conversations had absolutely zilch to do with the Smilemakers partnership. There was no pressure put on us to make this move and at no point in any thinking about this did Smilemakers come up. Over the years we've literally turned down millions of pounds from brands because we've categorically refused to engage in disingenuous marketing and/or take money from those brands which don't make parents' lives easier - I think we've shown that we're pretty good at resisting commercial pressure.

Thanks as ever for the feedback and good weekends to all Flowers

beastlyslumber · 25/02/2023 11:27

I’m not happy to have a sex chat thread here, period. I’m not happy for new mothers to be aggressively targeted with sex toy ads using nasty, dehumanising and ideologically motivated wording, I’m not happy with the Ann Summers collab, and I’m incensed that there wasn’t a team of specifically savvy moderators appointed to oversee the sex chat thread/sex topic as soon as the change was made to registration time, if they were so determined to let it stand.

I think it completely changes the character of MN if this is all allowed to stand.

TangledWebOfDeception · 25/02/2023 11:13

Yes; but I’m not going to waste any more time on anger and sadness. I’d rather just take myself elsewhere with a small group of people and talk about interesting things rather than having to swim through sewage.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 25/02/2023 11:11

I do feel really angry and really sad that I feel that this is necessary though.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 25/02/2023 11:09

I have a long list of pms to do. Grin

If we can set something up, Ill make sure word gets out.

TangledWebOfDeception · 25/02/2023 11:02

@OhYouBadBadKitten I dipped my toe into what I presume was one of your threads once and was fascinated by it, would love a PM when you decide where you’re going. I need a new hobby as Mumsnet was taking up too much of my time!

OhYouBadBadKitten · 25/02/2023 10:59

WhatCanWeDoNext · 25/02/2023 01:23

Please could someone also let me know where the Bootcamp and Weather gangs are going to next. @BIWI and @OhYouBadBadKitten . Pretty please 🙏

I don’t want to stay on a site that allows illegal CSA content.
Thank you.

I'm considering options carefully as we need a really robust option for a new weather forum. Are there any bloggers or website designers following the thread who can dm me please.

TangledWebOfDeception · 25/02/2023 10:57

Above in reply to @daisychain01.

Of course you should take whatever course of action is right for you. But this is definitely the right one for me.

I'm so done being Cassandra; I’m also done casting pearls before swine.

TangledWebOfDeception · 25/02/2023 10:49

You’re welcome to your opinion. However it’s a view I don’t share. There isn’t always a compromise to be reached. I’ve got absolutely no need for most of Mumsnet - I won’t miss anything except the handful of people I regularly engage with here, so no it’s certainly not going to spite my face.

I’m simply not going to contribute in any way as this place get worse and worse (I was already seriously considering leaving, tbh - this has just been the last straw) and I absolutely won’t support the owners and those in leadership positions of a parenting/women’s site being so lacking in awareness of dangers around safeguarding/appalling, illegal content and so lax in its policy application in that regard.

I’m not happy to have a sex chat thread here, period. I’m not happy for new mothers to be aggressively targeted with sex toy ads using nasty, dehumanising and ideologically motivated wording, I’m not happy with the Ann Summers collab, and I’m incensed that there wasn’t a team of specifically savvy moderators appointed to oversee the sex chat thread/sex topic as soon as the change was made to registration time, if they were so determined to let it stand.

I’m here for two main threads (although I comment on many others) and as long as I know where @BIWI is and where BC is being held I’m good. The other thread is a S&B frippery and if needs must I will happily let it go. I’ll take up weather watching instead! I’ve done my bit on FWR over the years too, so my work here is done and I can happily hand over to other who want to continue it.

ShowOfHands · 25/02/2023 10:48

I want to leave. I probably won't because for now, there's nowhere like it but I will be cancelling my Premium membership. I only have it as a thank you to a site which has meant so much to me for two decades and I wanted to support their continuation. Not if this is the direction I'm afraid.

I remember when I pushed for a sex topic years ago (still thinks it's a good idea to have it as a separate topic away from active) and MN complained that it would mean having to add all sorts of warning and flashing bells and whistles so that only adults would enter that section and they'd fulfil their legal and moral responsibilities. From that concern to forcing such content on their core users. What a sea change.

RainbowZebraWarrior · 25/02/2023 10:48

RainbowZebraWarrior · 25/02/2023 10:47

My fwiw opinion is that I would prefer to stay here and continue talking with MNHQ to see if there's a compromise to this situation rather than just abandoning the site without trying to resolve things.

The problem is that 'this situation' is rather the straw that has broken the camels back. It's been building for a long time and the bullshit excuses we are continually being fed by MN is an insult to our intelligence.

Sorey, first paragraph was a quote from the previous post.

RainbowZebraWarrior · 25/02/2023 10:47

My fwiw opinion is that I would prefer to stay here and continue talking with MNHQ to see if there's a compromise to this situation rather than just abandoning the site without trying to resolve things.

The problem is that 'this situation' is rather the straw that has broken the camels back. It's been building for a long time and the bullshit excuses we are continually being fed by MN is an insult to our intelligence.

daisychain01 · 25/02/2023 10:11

My fwiw opinion is that I would prefer to stay here and continue talking with MNHQ to see if there's a compromise to this situation rather than just abandoning the site without trying to resolve things. There's a lot of good in MN, even if some of it is highly frustrating at times. It would indeed be nice to be treated like intelligent adults rather than patronised, but I expect some of it is having to do it all in writing.

Abandoning this place is a combination of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face and throwing the baby out with the bath water. In my opinion.

SolitudeNotLoneliness · 25/02/2023 09:35

Me too... I'm. Getting useful. Info Re an op that's due, once that's done I'm deregister ING. Let me know where you all go.

Read the room @JustineMumsnet
This isn't about advice for new parents struggling with issues... That excuse is drivel.

ladymalfoy45 · 25/02/2023 09:21

Me too. 20 years and I agree with all of you. Let me know where we go.

beastlyslumber · 25/02/2023 09:18

I don’t want to stay on a site that allows illegal CSA content.

Same. It's very upsetting that MN don't seem to understand or care what they're doing. It's incredibly irresponsible to host a sex chat forum without any safeguarding measures. Why don't they understand safeguarding? It's a parenting site, ffs.

I'm hanging on at the moment in the hope that MN realises what they're doing and backtrack. I value FWR but those women care about safeguarding more than anyone! I can't see them staying if MN doesn't work this out.

lovem · 25/02/2023 09:10

I've been looking at Ovarit which seems fairly active.

ovarit.com/

Rhondaa · 25/02/2023 08:53

lovem · 25/02/2023 05:48

I would appreciate an invite too. I namechange all the time but have been here many, many years. I think mumsnet would be a sadder space without @OhYouBadBadKitten or @LangClegsInSpace and co (and a creepier place with the new preferred welcomed types of posters joining).

I wouldn't get too excited. We've had this so many times before. You'll end up on a tumbleweed site where the same 5 people post the same crap every day, strangely always analysing mumsnet and criticising posters on mumsnet <even tho they hate mn>.

Just accept that this isn't the result you want, but mn really is a massive site offering a wide range of opinions and experiences. It is well moderated. Who wants to post in an echo chamber where the other 5 posters all say 'yes absolutely! I agree!' 🥱

IneffableGenderFairy · 25/02/2023 08:00

Me too please! Been here seventeen years, but this is too much.

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