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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

References to underage sex on Sex board

362 replies

BenCoopersSupportWren · 23/02/2023 23:02

I haven’t been following the Sex topics in Active furore too closely, beyond agreeing on one of the early threads that it would be better for the Board to revert to the way it was - out of Active, with a longer qualifying time to be able to post.

However I’ve just read a thread which, on the face of it, is just reminiscing about posters’ ‘first times’ but which includes numerous disclosures of underage sex, including some that involved grooming, and one or two that are genuinely heartbreaking testimonies of child sexual abuse. They are particularly jarring interspersed as they are between end-of-pier type humour and jokes of others’ experience.

As I just posted there: “there is a reason most ‘mainstream’ dedicated end-user sex sites like Literotica, BDSMLR etc don’t allow stories or posts that are explicit about underage sex even when clearly written by adults, and will remove such posts when brought to the moderators’ attention. I used to work in the CJS and I’m afraid to say that such descriptions - even when expressed in short and simple terms - have currency among paedophiles. Part of my job was keeping the video testimony of CSA victims and any associated transcripts locked away so that they didn’t fall into the wrong hands. Unfortunately it’s not just explicit photos and videos that they get off to.”

For clarity, by “explicit about underage sex” I mean making specific reference to, not that the material has to be particularly sexually explicit. The exact same thread would simply not be allowed to stand on Literotica’s chat forum, for example.

While there have always been examples in other parts of the site of posters making disclosures of having been abused, that is a very different thing to sharing it in a section that only the most naive or wilfully obtuse would deny will be used in part for titillation. My issue isn’t that the thread is particularly sexually explicit - it mostly isn’t, and I’m pretty broad-minded… in context. But no one could argue that “where did you lose your virginity?” is masquerading as a support / how to / informative thread; it’s for entertainment and kicks only, be the latter humour or a sexual thrill. (A few posters on that thread have been supportive to those who disclosed their abuse, but ‘support’ is clearly not the original purpose of the thread.)

IMO it is extremely remiss of MN to disregard the ‘good practice’ rules that other sex sites maintain for handling material relating to references to underage sex/CSA, both because of the type of person attracted to those sites if such rules aren’t in place and from a liability / arse-covering perspective. This, combined with the lack of any age verification or warning for that part of the site, makes it even more obvious that MN don’t understand what is involved in safely and legally hosting a ‘sex chat site’ or part thereof.

OP posts:
lummsnet · 24/02/2023 10:23

Where are MNHQ ?

AmberGer · 24/02/2023 10:21

MN are digging their own grave.
There will be consequences.
HQ don't care. They've shown that.

CrotchetyCrocheting · 24/02/2023 10:15

I got an email from mumsnet about that thread. They have removed it because it 'was causing some upset' and some people have since regretted posting on it. Talk about minimising allowing a thread detailing having sex with a child to be allowed stand for hours and hours.

I would hope that both the person that started that thread and the poster that posted the grim post about sex with a child have been banned from using mumsnet in future?

Clymene · 24/02/2023 10:15

I'm really sorry you feel like that @SproutingAbout. It's really wrong that survivors of CSA don't feel this is a welcoming place anymore. It always has been.

SproutingAbout · 24/02/2023 10:14

Also 💐 to others who have been triggered by this. MN don't seem to care but other survivors do.

SproutingAbout · 24/02/2023 10:13

*taints the whole site

SproutingAbout · 24/02/2023 10:11

As a CSA survivor I'm now feeling that I can't use MN as it's not a place that I feel safe or welcome anymore. The sneery attitudes of some posters on the sex board are the icing on the cake - basically if we don't like seeing threads about underage sex and 'pumping' their girlfriends we're prudes and it's an us problem.

Hiding threads or topics is not the answer - the content is still there, and so are the people it attracts. It taints the whole board.

Please @MNHQ can this go back to being a site where people like me do not feel belittled and unwelcome, while men discussing how to use sex toys on themselves do?

Moonicorn · 24/02/2023 10:06

I agree, I contributed to it without thinking and am surprised at myself I didn’t realise this.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 24/02/2023 10:04

Thank you for raising this. These threads will be triggering feelings by people who have been victims of SA. So MNs policy is to hide the Sex board, meaning that victims of SA can not ever approach it anonymously for support in the future if they need it, because to do so, they need to unhide everything and have all the threads in their face on active.

ColadhSamh · 24/02/2023 09:46

Excellent @BenCoopersSupportWren What's disturbing about the thread being left for so long is that @mumsnet staff and moderators took no action until this discussion brought to their attention.

So many red flags which are being ignored.

Amarchhare · 24/02/2023 09:46

Couldn’t agree more. Well said.

daretodenim · 24/02/2023 09:39

@BenCoopersSupportWren
TOTALLY with you on all your posts on this.

I'm absolutely disgusted. I want to believe it's naivety that has led to this situation but I simply cannot understand how MNHQ could actually be this naive, given the content on Mumsnet for years.

The 3 month pause before new posters can be on the sex board should be reintroduced, with any new members who've posted there since it was reduced to 7 days deleted and have to re-register, if they want.

FictionalCharacter · 24/02/2023 09:31

@MrsTerryPratchett @Clymene I completely agree.
It feels like MN is being targeted by sex pests of all kinds, spoiling the experience for women, and mnhq are letting them do it. Meanwhile genuine posts about things we should have a right to discuss are deleted for being "not in the spirit".

Bamboux · 24/02/2023 09:19

Brilliant posts, @BenCoopersSupportWren

What a shame that Mumsnet aren't interested in listening to someone with genuine expertise and experience, offering them expert advice for free.

The potential fall out from this is huge.

SalviaOfficinalis · 24/02/2023 08:52

I wonder what the moderators think about having to moderate the new and improved sex chat… has MN consulted with them I wonder.

BenCoopersSupportWren · 24/02/2023 08:49

Phos · 24/02/2023 08:41

Are you talking about the where was your first time thread? I didn't think it was exactly Literotica - most of the replies were one or two sentences at most.

Indeed, most were. But some of those short, brief posts contained material that would be exciting to paedophiles.

I wish I were wrong about that. I wish I were merely pearl-clutching. Unfortunately I have first hand experience of prosecuting the kind of men who prove it over and over.

Posting that kind of material is forbidden on the likes of Literotica, no matter how brief or sincerely written. They have a zero-tolerance approach to underage sexual references. And if MN are determined to host part of their site as a place for sex chat then the least they can do is apply the same rules on that board.

OP posts:
Clymene · 24/02/2023 08:47

Phos · 24/02/2023 08:41

Are you talking about the where was your first time thread? I didn't think it was exactly Literotica - most of the replies were one or two sentences at most.

You really need to reread the OP very carefully again.

MySugarBabyLove · 24/02/2023 08:42

If the sex topic really must be in active, then IMO:

you should have been a member, and have posted, for 90 days before being able to post there. Same should apply to namechanges you shouldn’t be able t post until 90 days after a namechange, and no. The sex topic is not somewhere you need the safety to post behind a namechange, your sexually explicit and perverted posts should be able to be linked to your posting history.

The board should be locked to new posts between 7 at night and 9 in the morning, because we all know that the most prevalent time for trolls, perverts and the generally undesirable is in the middle of the night when there’s no moderation, so close the board.

Phos · 24/02/2023 08:41

Are you talking about the where was your first time thread? I didn't think it was exactly Literotica - most of the replies were one or two sentences at most.

Rogue1001MNer · 24/02/2023 08:27

onirgellep · 24/02/2023 08:06

The losing virginity thread has just been hidden by MNHQ to take a look

Took long enough!

RedDoughnut · 24/02/2023 08:27

It's such a shame things have taken this turn, it's not the Mumsnet I know and love

Aphrathestorm · 24/02/2023 08:23

Yes I went and looked on that thread and was so disturbed I left it.

lummsnet · 24/02/2023 08:21

SalviaOfficinalis · 24/02/2023 08:18

This is just getting worse and worse.

Obviously an internet forum is never completely a “safe space” but now MN is actively attracting pervs.

And obviously they’re not just going to stay in the sex topic once they’re here, they’ll want to have a good look around and read threads about women’s post-birth recovery and deeply personal and sensitive topics. And Yes I know pervs could always do that, but it feels like it’s being actively encouraged now.

Sort it out @mnhq I don’t want to go to net mums 😭

I agree with this.

I know it's not a safe space but it felt like somewhere that pervs wouldn't be tolerated by posters. And it felt like somewhere with a predominantly female focus where I could post and get a predominately female response

SalviaOfficinalis · 24/02/2023 08:18

This is just getting worse and worse.

Obviously an internet forum is never completely a “safe space” but now MN is actively attracting pervs.

And obviously they’re not just going to stay in the sex topic once they’re here, they’ll want to have a good look around and read threads about women’s post-birth recovery and deeply personal and sensitive topics. And Yes I know pervs could always do that, but it feels like it’s being actively encouraged now.

Sort it out @mnhq I don’t want to go to net mums 😭

Cincinnatus · 24/02/2023 08:17

Agree with this and the other threads about the content. MN doesn’t seem bothered though.