How do we discuss the reality of parts of the UK absorbing large numbers of men from other cultures

I’m not coming from a shock horror refugees are awful perspective. I think it would be helpful to any immigrant to get some sort of class where they can learn our culture and how to interact socially with British people without causing offence. Even a basic how to tell whether someone is just being polite vs wouldn’t mind being a new friend. Different phrases we use like bobs your uncle, and don’t be a wet blanket. To say “sorry” when needing to reach past someone in a shop instead of “excuse me” or just reaching. The class could also support each other by talking about different things…like “my colleague made me a cup of tea and I said thank you and drank it with my biscuits, but now they seem angry with me? Why?”

I think I saw a program too the Germany was running that specifically was for single immigrant men to learn how to approach women and go on dates in a culturally acceptable way.

That’s not what your sources say.
They say that statistically when it is child abuse the number of white offenders is slightly less than what would be proportionate to the population. 85% of offenders for 86% of the population. As in a null risk.

The source I posted gave the percentages of the ethnicities of the offenders.
Not what it would be proportionate to the population.

So out if all the sexual offences, the percentages recorded were the ethnicity of the perpetrator.

You know it would not be possible that no white people were a risk to children when you can just watch the news and see otherwise.

It’s also 1/3 children who are abused and the majority are by a family member or close friend - again it would be impossible to have a null risk for white people offending lol.

I think CarefreeMe's post explains it best.

It’s the classing an entire group of people as something, that is offensive.

If I said all black men like basketball, that is offensive.

If I said all women over 40 are rubbish in bed, that’s offensive.

If I said all adults with autism are underlying sex offenders, that would be offensive.

It doesn’t matter what the subject is, if you base a judgement on an entire population of people based on race, culture, sex, age etc then that is prejudice.

If you replace your (or anyones) wording of ‘culture’ or ‘foreign’ with the word ‘autism’, then you’ll be able to see if it’s offensive or not.

The same way many women will have been raped with men with autism, it doesn’t mean that all autistic people are rapists and it’s not invalidating the victims to say so.

So you don't think men from middle eastern countries who have been raised to believe than women are the property of men might view women differently (and treat them differently) from other men?

I believe that most men have underlying misogyny and that some cultures are more vocal about it but the actual danger they represent is the same.

I was reading a forum for Incels and it is frightening how they are regular people with normal jobs who walk amongst us but want to do incredible harm.

The USA think Mexican people are the problem.
Mexican people think people from Honduras are the problem.

The reason Middle Eastern countries are more dangerous for females is because the entire system is messed up.

Here individuals may be misogynistic but our system is not as bad as the systems over there.

I do believe our police force and government etc are misogynistic but just not as bad as other countries.

It’s only quite recently where we’ve addressed things like grooming gangs, peado rings, people like Jimmy Saville, peado churches - it wasn’t that long ago where this was all swept under the carpet and women feared to come clean.

I still think we’ve got a long way to go too.

Yes, a Life in U.K. class would be for all immigrants regardless of race, nationality, religion or sex. Everyone aged 12+.

ALL men in this country need educating about women's rights, regardless of where they were born or their ethnicity or religion.

Why just the boys/men? Shouldn’t girls/women also be educated as to their rights? Otherwise we risk girls being raised into women who do not know they have rights. Do not know they can say no to an arranged marriage. Do not know that they can go to university. Do not know that they don’t have to give all their earnings to their parents or older brother. And so on.

It doesn’t matter what the subject is, if you base a judgement on an entire population of people based on race, culture, sex, age etc then that is prejudice.

Please can you respond to my point upthread. Why is it that when people across the world have objected to the football world cup being held in Quatar because of it's human violations (a large part of which are against women), it is racist to point out that men who are immigrants from that region might share those attitudes towards women.

What is it about being 'an immigrant' that means that we can't talk about these things?

That’s not what your sources say.
They say that statistically when it is child abuse the number of white offenders is slightly less than what would be proportionate to the population. 85% of offenders for 86% of the population. As in a null risk.

But when it is child sexual exploitation, which is what the poster was talking about, children statistically have over ten times the risk from Asian offenders than white offenders.
Population 86% white, but 38% of child sexual exploitation offenders= 0.44
Population 8% Asian, but 36% of child sexual exploitation offenders= 4.5

is it the word 'other' or the word 'culture' that is racist? just for my future reference

It’s the classing an entire group of people as something, that is offensive.

If I said all black men like basketball, that is offensive.

If I said all women over 40 are rubbish in bed, that’s offensive.

If I said all adults with autism are underlying sex offenders, that would be offensive.

It doesn’t matter what the subject is, if you base a judgement on an entire population of people based on race, culture, sex, age etc then that is prejudice.

If you replace your (or anyones) wording of ‘culture’ or ‘foreign’ with the word ‘autism’, then you’ll be able to see if it’s offensive or not.

The same way many women will have been raped with men with autism, it doesn’t mean that all autistic people are rapists and it’s not invalidating the victims to say so.

So you don't think men from middle eastern countries who have been raised to believe than women are the property of men might view women differently (and treat them differently) from other men?

Men are men, but men who are born into misogynistic cultures where women are seen as lesser humans are more likely to treat women as lesser humans wherever they migrate to . The nature of the treatment towards me from the middle eastern men in France was not the same as from the native French men because of the differences in the way the men have been raised.

I'm not as familiar with Italian men as I am with French men but I doubt that they have been raised to see women as lesser than men in the way that immigrant men from the middle east have been.

Netherlands did. They were coalition members in the Iraq wars (which Iraq started).

And besides you are mixing up refugee crises. The million Germany took in during 2015/16 were mostly fleeing the war in Syria. Which Germany did have a hand in creating as they sent their military there to fight ISIS in 2015.

@woodhill That is an option, but it can't be done at the same time as discouraging people to have children which is the way the government has decided to go. To reverse it they'd need to build more genuinely affordable housing, lower or remove higher education fees, increase child benefit and possibly make it universal again, pay benefits for ALL children not just the first two, subsidise childcare or women staying at home to look after their own children, etc.

I think what we need most is politicians who will be honest about things rather than blaming everything on a scapegoat.

Sex is a protected characteristic as is race and religion. Is anyone noting how men can be attacked on here but dare you mention a religion beginning with m (not Mumsnet) or ethnicity only one of those 3 will miraculously be within the talk guidelines.

There were lots of young middle eastern male immigrants in Paris in the 90s when I was living there. I can 100% tell you that their behaviour towards me, as a young woman, was different from the behaviour from males from other cultures.

It is not racist to point this out. It is what I experienced.

I believe you 100% and I don’t think you’re racist at all.

However, on the other thread there was a poster who also lived in France and she said the French men’s behaviour was the worst she’d ever encountered.

I said that I’ve never encountered one French man that had inappropriate behaviour but the Italian men in Italy were the worst I’ve ever come across.

Neither of us were being racist, just like you aren’t.

But what it shows is that men are men and many of them have misogynistic views, whether they’re open about them or not.

i live in London. Honestly, my worst experiences have involved white men.

It’s not foreign men that are the problem. It’s the entitlement that men in general have.

The thread topic has nothing to do with women's sex-based and transgender rights but has been posted in Sex and Gender.

I agree it is a worthy subject of discussion and would contribute if it were posted in say, Politics or Feminism Chat or if there is a

news or current affairs section or perhaps AIBU but will not do so where it is pushing on-topic threads down the list, along with some other off-topic threads doing the same thing.

I think the tone of the opening post and some of the first responses was in response to the fact that several threads trying to discuss just that had been removed for 'not being in the spirit'.

Context is key here.

Yes I do accept that. I'm not arguing against what you're trying to discuss, I think it's a valid concern. But that's not what your OP was about. You wanted to know how the topic could be discussed without being shut down – and then posted an inflammatory worded question to kick things off. Had you posted something like 'Should the Govt being doing more to protect women from predatory male behaviour in growing communities' followed by what you posted here, you'd have sparked a reasonable debate because yes, you are right, it does affect the behaviour of those raised in that culture.

I don't think it ever really existed. It was just 'be kind' with all of the anti women connotations attached to that.

Whatever happened to the “we believe you” movement?

Of course not. It's called offering a counterpoint.

So your experience invalidates someone else’s?