How do we discuss the reality of parts of the UK absorbing large numbers of men from other cultures

I don’t “know” what I posted was opinion, or asking for others opinion. If I was posting “fact” I’d probably say so. I do think an enormous amount of dross is posted about immigrants, cultural norms and religion on MN and in the media. We are coached and encouraged into a very polarised view. I don’t think that’s my experience in real life but I am aware that’s only one experience and am interested in others, and their impression and perhaps how that informs their views.

The gains you have made have actually been tremendous and a lot of work has gone into it. You don’t notice until they start slipping away (or you choose to live in one of these countries and understand for yourself how they can be)

How do you know that „many posting don’t really know any immigrants or refugees or asylum seekers and have only the shakiest understanding of the cultures they are so frightened of“?
And then when somebody on the thread says they feel like they do have a good understanding of cultures people are referring to here you imply their experience is not representative for the other posters - how do you know that?
It’s like when people claim that those who are most critical about immigration are usually the ones who live in areas with hardly any immigrants whereas those living in multicultural places have no issues - but I‘m not sure that‘s always the case, and I live in a town with people from many different backgrounds.

Yes I was pointing out that while you might have insight others might not. I asked if you felt that most of the posters understood, or very few to highlight that perhaps your take might be more nuanced but that wasn’t necessarily the generally held level of understanding. I ignored the whole “defeatist”/“pathetic” characterisation because I thought it was silly but couldn’t see how interacting about it was relevant or likely to be profitable.
im sorry if you were expecting a detailed and focused response to all parts of your post, that’s not a service most people are interested in providing.

Did you mean to reply to me? Just your comment doesn't seem to actually relate to anything I've posted.

I do not have a shaky understanding of the deep rooted issues women and girls face there. Do you think that makes you unique on this thread, in the minority or in the majority?

I DO think we need to discuss how immigrants are treated in the UK and how we treat women and condone the treatment of women in general in the UK.

No one is claiming we are perfect though, are they? Yes those are all failings towards women and girls safety and our government, police and society at large should be addressing these; no one is saying they shouldn't. It's very defeatist and pathetic though to say well as we pretty shit may as well not bother considering anything else. Also that's quite an assumption you are making. I am not white, I have family still in one of the countries people are no doubt thinking of, I do not have a shaky understanding of the deep rooted issues women and girls face there.

I think I always find it a bit jarring to hear how “advanced” we are in comparison to x or y country when we have a horrific record on things like rape convictions and have very little chance of retaining single sex toilets and medicine for women is underfunded and often quite callous. Our problems are different but they’re not minor and many posting don’t really know any immigrants or refugees or asylum seekers and have only the shakiest understanding of the cultures they are so frightened of.

I noticed in our local :rag' that a man who had repeatedly flashed and harassed girls and young women in public spaces like shopping centres and parks in day time has been jailed for 42 weeks.

He will be banned from certain parts of the town. I am uncertain from his name where he is from (possibly Romanian?) why can't he be deported if he has committed a crime or why was he allowed to come here in the first place?

I agree regarding immigrants being a sacred caste for some. Someone upthread said that immigrants are never the problem - that’s such a sweeping statement.
I‘m an immigrant myself, I have Ukranian roots. The first couple times I saw threads with people complaining about Ukranian refugees they had taken in I felt somewhat offended.
But people are entitled to voice their concerns and share their experience, be it positive or negative. It’s better to discuss those issues openly and try to find solutions rather than sweep them under the carpet.

Agree with this.

Did Rotherham and Rochdale never happen should the op "shut their mouths for the sake of diversity" . Honestly we never learn.

Yes from a housing perspective same for Ukrainians.

How is she being dense?

This thread is not about boycotting goods though.
It’s about women being concerned about how large numbers of single men from certain cultures arriving in the UK might affect their lives.
It‘s not about what’s happening in other countries and wether or not it’s right, it’s about how people from these places interact with the local population in the UK.

Exactly. Yet again we can’t identify the problem because we get told it’s racist. When large groups of young men from a patriarchal country are moved into a hotel in a small town in the U.K. there will be problems.

I think lots of people are being purposefully obtuse. People aren't saying that these men potentially pose a threat because of the colour of their skin, their race or any other physical feature. They're saying that due to the way women are viewed and treated in the countries some come from its bound to have an effect; the fact that people from these countries are often not white isnt the issue. Of course generalising on skin colour for no reason beyond well they aren't white is wrong and racist, but no one is doing that. No one is saying that every man is a threat or holds these deeply entrenched views either, but it certainly should be considered and addressed, just as all violence against women should be. Its very naieve to assume places with such clashing cultures mixing in large numbers will have zero impact.

Qualified Doctors obviously come by legal routes, and are in demand- It’s unlikely anyone well qualified would enter via dodgy routes. interesting. So the issue is with how people enter the country, and specifically with male refugees from the Middle East? Why?

Will you please stop equating misogyny within the British police forces to misogyny found in many places across the globe.

Were you sexually assaulted in the street - where do you want to report that?

A. Slough police station
B. Doha

if you said B then there’s really no hope for you.

Qualified Doctors obviously come by legal routes, and are in demand- It’s unlikely anyone well qualified would enter via dodgy routes.

There are huge numbers of immigrants from the Middle East working in the nhs as Drs, how do they fit into this narrative? Do we just ignore their contribution and that of all Asian and North Africans too because they are brown and “not local”?

To my mind it’s rather like describing rampaging British football hooligans as “British people”. Yes there are obviously problems with lonely male youths with little to lose and how that might impact their behaviour. Are they really the majority of asylum seekers?

Well if you can't see how Qatar, a country on the world stage for football which is simultaneously being criticised for human rights violations and the fact it treats women as property as relevant to a discussion about how males from other cultures view women as lesser human then that's really your issue not mine.

The views of Qatar on women are typical of Islamic views and are typical of views of males from the Middle East (which I will qualify for the pupose of this discussion includes Northern African Arab states).

The fact that Arab males need to 'catch up on human rights' really doesn't excuse the behaviour of Arab male immigrants that I've experienced personally in Paris and that the poor rape victims and sexual assault victims experienced in Cologne on New Years Eve . There is an acknowledgement that 'hard questions' about the coordinated attacks in Germany were not asked for fear of being accused of xenophobia.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/08/cologne-attacks-hard-questions-new-years-eve

This is not to say that the biggest threat to women comes from immigrants. It is not to say that men as a whole are not a problem. But to brush this under the carpet and to silence discussion doesn't help women. It is not racist to point these issues out.

We look at social and economic reasons that white men commit sexual crimes. We can't do that about immigrants for fear of being accused of racism. That is wrong and it doesn't help women.