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Original poster

Why was my thread removed?

115 replies

MrsBunTheBakersMum · 31/08/2022 10:08

I posted to see if anyone had the same religious beliefs as I did and within hours my post was deleted.
am I right in thinking now that mumsnet is happy for you to discuss your beliefs but only if they align with their own?
if you’re allowing discussions on religion then you should be open to discussions on all beliefs.
my religion is recognised as a belief system in the us and has all the same legal rights as any other.

these are the tenets I live by.
There are Seven
FUNDAMENTAL TENETS
I
One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.

II
The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.

III
One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.

IV
The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.

V
Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.

VI
People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.

VII
Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

does that sound offensive and scary to you to be deleted?

OP posts:
ArtixLynx · 01/09/2022 12:42

i really think MNHQ and their replies on this thread are actually really rude.

I'm a witch, but the attitude towards unusual faiths on here can be very 'off' and do not pass the vibe check.

Original poster
MrsBunTheBakersMum · 01/09/2022 12:27

ABitWooInnit · 01/09/2022 08:56

Hi OP.

I was interested in Satanism until they started posting about holding Trans seminars to educate people.

I asked how 'believing' you are a woman corresponds with the tenet about science being more important than beliefs. I was polite and genuinely curious because obviously being trans is a belief not a scientific fact.

I was kicked out of the group.

When asked why I was removed, when another tenet is 'the freedom to offend'

I was basically told you're allowed to offend everyone except trans people and blocked 🙄

So I don't support the UK faction even though I'm PRINCIPLE I find the tenets wonderful and I appreciate what Lucian Greaves and the USA faction are doing for women.

If you had been born with an extra arm stuck out of your chest you would have it removed because it doesn’t feel like it’s your body and so you’d have surgery to correct it.
trans women are women and always have been but finally they are able to have surgery, medications etc to align their body with how they were supposed to be born.
its not a belief or choice, I didn’t choose to be bisexual i don’t “believe” I’m bisexual I just am.
that’s probably why you were asked to leave because one of the benefits of satanism being so open and accepting means trans and gay people are more common

OP posts:
goldfinchonthelawn · 01/09/2022 12:04

Ah well. I was up for discussing the tenets with OP but they didn't reply.

I too wonder why they call themselves Satanists if they have no belief in Satan. Bit odd.

Return2thebasic · 01/09/2022 11:57

I found this thread has been very educational so far. I'm really interested in doing some more research when I've got the time. Religions represent a fascinating aspect of humanity. And it's always interesting to see why some people choose to believe something but not others.

ClumpingBambooIsALie · 01/09/2022 11:30

I'm with the OP. There's an important cultural context in its country of origin that explains why this social/political group was formulated as a religion and given an eye-catching name. Some of that cultural context has similarities and parallels in this country, which explains why it can appeal to people here too.

I've read the cached version of the original thread and there's nothing unduly provocative there, and it could help people get a better understanding of how religion and social power intertwine such that even in a supposedly secular society, it can be helpful for the non-religious to organise as though they were a religious body for the sake of rebalancing power and advancing fairness.

Bloodoranged · 01/09/2022 11:18

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 01/09/2022 11:08

Oh so that’s alright then. What are their / your views on Islam? Or Hinduism? Or Sikhism. Any opposition to them ( or might that entail some pushback of a less pleasant nature)?

Show quote history

From what I understand the Satanic Tempe are mainly based in America where Christianty is the dominant religion and are opposed to Christan influence on laws there e.g. the tightening on abortion restrictions and opposition to gay marriage.

stayathomer · 01/09/2022 11:17

I'm really surprised by that justification for a thread deletion.
I thought it was a perfectly justifiable reason for deleting a thread- the tone of a thread is everything. Some of the nicest seeming threads ever have been deleted because people have come on and been bullies, derogatory etc. Btw I’m loving the way op got her thread anyway but also got to have people saying mn is being unfair too.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 01/09/2022 11:08

GingerAndLemonn · 31/08/2022 19:22

I mean it literally says in your quote why. It’s opposing Christianity.

Oh so that’s alright then. What are their / your views on Islam? Or Hinduism? Or Sikhism. Any opposition to them ( or might that entail some pushback of a less pleasant nature)?

BeetrootBeetrootGhali · 01/09/2022 11:00

I’m another who finds it odd that MNHQ have deleted the thread.

I don’t read threads about religions as I believe there is a cultish element to every organised religion but I can’t see how MN can make a determination as to which are worthy of space on the board or otherwise.

Ultimately, it’s a private business and so MN can ban chat about satanism, scented candles, or the breeding habits of Komodo Dragons if they wish, but I think it was a bizarre decision given that there’s generally a high tolerance here for a lot of topics.

ABitWooInnit · 01/09/2022 08:56

Hi OP.

I was interested in Satanism until they started posting about holding Trans seminars to educate people.

I asked how 'believing' you are a woman corresponds with the tenet about science being more important than beliefs. I was polite and genuinely curious because obviously being trans is a belief not a scientific fact.

I was kicked out of the group.

When asked why I was removed, when another tenet is 'the freedom to offend'

I was basically told you're allowed to offend everyone except trans people and blocked 🙄

So I don't support the UK faction even though I'm PRINCIPLE I find the tenets wonderful and I appreciate what Lucian Greaves and the USA faction are doing for women.

C8H10N4O2 · 01/09/2022 08:55

Grumpyoldpersonwithcats · 01/09/2022 08:43

I've found this discussion of the Satanic Temple v the Church of Satan very reminiscent of the Judean People's Front.
Satanic Temple? Splitters!

I'm glad it wasn't just me thinking that 😂

clairethewitch70 · 01/09/2022 08:49

As soon as I saw the tenets I knew😁. I have loads of friends who are satanists and they are all awesome people. The most charitable minded too and in America the Church of Satan is active against the awful womens laws.

Grumpyoldpersonwithcats · 01/09/2022 08:43

I've found this discussion of the Satanic Temple v the Church of Satan very reminiscent of the Judean People's Front.
Satanic Temple? Splitters!

03X · 01/09/2022 08:26

I also don’t think it should have been removed. It was posted in the right section and wasn’t goady at all - just horrible mumsnet posters as usual.

I’m Roman Catholic.

drbuzzaro · 01/09/2022 08:12

People post about other religions on here all the time and the threads don't get removed. bit of andouble standard

Original poster
MrsBunTheBakersMum · 01/09/2022 01:40

Leafy3 · 01/09/2022 01:35

I'm with the op on this one. I was dimly aware that satanism - in spite of the name - isn't as horror films portray and was interested to learn about it in a non sensationalist way.

Albeit, op, your opening post didn't explain this so it could easily have attracted nutters.

I reported one response on the thread which was derogatory and insulting to anyone with any belief in a higher power.

It does seem that moderators jumped to conclusions on what was shaping up as a rational discussion. I can understand that though, what concerns me is the open declaration here that they'll shut down any further rational discussion, purely on the basis of the inclusion of the word 'satan'.

This is overwhelmingly a uk centric site and (generalising here) the Brits are geneally better at discussing these things without getting hysterical over it than some groups in other countries.

It was posted in an appropriate forum and its disappointing moderators didn't give it a chance.

I’ll just leave this here and go to sleep.

What is Article 9 of the Human Rights Act?
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance.

OP posts:
Leafy3 · 01/09/2022 01:35

I'm with the op on this one. I was dimly aware that satanism - in spite of the name - isn't as horror films portray and was interested to learn about it in a non sensationalist way.

Albeit, op, your opening post didn't explain this so it could easily have attracted nutters.

I reported one response on the thread which was derogatory and insulting to anyone with any belief in a higher power.

It does seem that moderators jumped to conclusions on what was shaping up as a rational discussion. I can understand that though, what concerns me is the open declaration here that they'll shut down any further rational discussion, purely on the basis of the inclusion of the word 'satan'.

This is overwhelmingly a uk centric site and (generalising here) the Brits are geneally better at discussing these things without getting hysterical over it than some groups in other countries.

It was posted in an appropriate forum and its disappointing moderators didn't give it a chance.

MightbeMaybe · 01/09/2022 01:34

I'm sure there was a documentary on netflix about the satanic temple, it was pretty good and very informative I thought.

Original poster
MrsBunTheBakersMum · 01/09/2022 01:08

The church of satan and the satanic temple are two different things, the church of satan came first and as far as I’m aware the satanic temple basically started because some people didn’t agree with some of their ideas. I find the church of satan to be more selfish and hedonistic whereas the satanic temple is a bit more into the activism and basically doing as you want as long as you’re following the tenets to the best of your ability. There are no set rituals or events that you have to follow but if you want to do rituals you can (think more mindful meditation than wailing in Latin trying to sell our souls to the devil, we’re non-theistic so don’t believe in souls or heaven/hell any deity just science and common sense) Halloween is basically the same.
we do celebrate at “Christmas” but no angels on the tree! I have a little baphamet plush for the top of mine “Sol invictus” is on 25th December with decorating pine trees exchanging gifts, feasting and being with family and probably for me a quiet ritual in the evening alone.

there’s more but I’m off to bed so I do recommend anyone who’s interested look on the website (not trying to force people to join up as I’m sure I’ll be accused of but there’s a really good faq that will explain it all better than I can)

I’m glad a few people have managed to be openminded and not just jump on everything I’ve said or done.
and to the people who have been quite rude I will refer you to tenets 1 and 4

OP posts:
AuntTwacky · 01/09/2022 00:22

It's a cult!!

PizzaPatel · 01/09/2022 00:18

blimey a few people have really got their knickers in a twist over someone having beliefs they don’t understand…

I had no idea that satanism was as you describe OP - would have thought it involved devil worship and eating babies 😬 - and am finding this post really interesting.

MightbeMaybe · 31/08/2022 23:55

Bloodoranged · 31/08/2022 20:20

Isn't that the Satanic Temple?

Show quote history

I've just read this post and realised I may have named the wrong church too.

Sorry! The one I've read about does actual good work and sensible political lobbying.

MightbeMaybe · 31/08/2022 23:53

From what I've seen/read the Church of Satan is actually one of the more rational religions I've seen, I'm a little iffy on some of the wording in the tenets but really the work they do in the communities they are in, for schools and the underprivileged and the political lobbying they do looks to me like good work and sound judgement.

I know they have excommunicated people (is that even the correct term? I'm sorry if not) who have used the religion of Satanism to preach hate or violence.

I haven't come across anything unreasonable.

It's mostly the name people are objecting to but part of the reason I suspect they call themselves Satanists is because if they called themselves The Church of Common Sense or something, they wouldn't make so much of a splash. Part of their work involves getting their name out there, I can't blame them for clever PR.

YesitsBess · 31/08/2022 22:31

@MNHQ I think you’ve dropped a bollock here. Let the thread stand!

User1212121 · 31/08/2022 22:29

Margot78 · 31/08/2022 17:47

Yes but in this thread you’re just listing your ‘tenets’ and honestly nobody cares. Just work on your arrogance and lack of self awareness and leave strangers alone to live their lives.

How rude what on earth got your knickers in a twist Biscuit