I know there are a million threads on this site already but mn your accessibility (or lack thereof) is shocking.

AlternativePerspective · 2022-04-26T05:36:58+00:00

I am a voiceover user using mn on safari because to be frank the app was never very accessible and from what I read wasn’t that user friendly even if you didn’t need a screenreader so I never bothered to complain about it. But since the new update, I can no longer: bold/highlight/underline etc because the keyboard shortcuts no longer exist. Can no longer tag users because the keyboard command to do that no longer exists. Can no longer insert emoticons because although I can access the drop down every single one of the emoticons is unlabelled and simply reads “undefined”. Quote function was never accessible anyway but at least I could highlight text, now all any voiceover user or anyone who relied on keyboard shortcuts for that matter can do is type,a response. No tagging, no quoting other posters, no emoticons (although I can plum the depths of apple emogi’s for that if I so wish). Glitches which make the site clunky are annoying and irritating. Glitches which mean you’re freezing out your disabled users are unacceptable. As apparently the biggest parenting site in the UK you really should be aiming to do better than this.

DrDreReturns · 27/04/2022 21:33

I don't have accessibility issues but I find it really annoying that ctrl + enter doesn't work any more. Updates should improve things, not make them worse. It took three years! Please can I have a job there!
The lack of thought for accessibility issues is shocking.

sausagepastapot · 27/04/2022 21:29

Bumping this, how shite for you. @MNHQ, pull your fucking finger out!

daisychain01 · 27/04/2022 21:25

cornflakedreams · 27/04/2022 14:18

Forgetting to include disabled testers is the usual answer in such scenarios.

Show quote history

Indeed, I made this point on the other thread. Accessibility Needs testing requires actual users running the main accessibility adaptive software packages such as Dragon, Dolphin screen magnifier, being given access to the MN test environment and doing some standard tests of common tasks.

Before Go-Live - not waiting until people run into difficulties on the new site and then scrabbling around trying to work out how to do quick-fixes in a panic. It isn't that difficult to coordinate that sort of testing and it does evidence commitment to disabled people, so they aren't an afterthought.

JenniferAlisonPhilipaSue · 27/04/2022 16:30

@SueMumsnet Can you advise on what disability awareness training, if any, MN staff receive? Is it the most basic generic equality e learning modules, or do you have proper disability training from actual disability organisations like scope, Shaw Trust, MenCap, Mind or leonard cheshire? Have you had any accessibility audits undertaken from these charities or has it just been non disabled organisations who claim to understand disability accessibility? Have you had any of your policies and processes reviewed by actual disability charities or has your D&I team (if you even have one!) figured they knew best? Be very interested to read your response, and see if my suspicions are correct.

EarringsandLipstick · 27/04/2022 16:23

SueMumsnet · 27/04/2022 10:32

Hi all

Sorry for the delay in responding to this - it took a bit of time to look into the issues thoroughly to understand where we can make quick improvements and what needs a bit more investigation.

Most of the keyboard shortcut issues have been caused by the fact that we've moved to a text box plugin to make posting, formatting etc easier to do. But we've looked into it and we can sort the following things relatively quickly (ie in the next few days): add keyboard shortcuts for bold, underline and italic, we can make ctrl+enter work for posting and we can improve the accessibility of drop-down menus; we can also make the Mumsnet emojis work via keyboard shortcuts; and we'll make the small arrows and pagination bigger and bolder.

We know there are a few more things causing stress so beyond these fixes we'll be looking at those and making a plan for sorting any remaining issues. As we've said in other posts, we're absolutely committed to improving accessibility on Mumsnet so any other specific requests on what we can do to make it easier to use would be very much appreciated.

But that reply, like most others from MNHQ, has the 'oh dear what a pity, help us understand' vibe from it.

You are a business. Surely to God you had some kind of plan for your platform launch, including appropriate accessibility provision (and not the waffle nonsense Justine posted with recently).

It's really poor how uninformed you are.

cornflakedreams · 27/04/2022 14:18

AchillesPoirot · 27/04/2022 14:11

How did all of this get missed in testing?

Forgetting to include disabled testers is the usual answer in such scenarios.

AchillesPoirot · 27/04/2022 14:11

How did all of this get missed in testing?

FlibbertyGiblets · 27/04/2022 12:55

Thank you Sue. I hope these improvements erm improve the user experience for posters like the OP and others who have added their feedback here.

I do appreciate HQ is probably over run with incoming issues.

AchillesPoirot · 27/04/2022 11:03

@SueMumsnet just to echo. The colours are less clear - they're much more peelywally than they used to be and it makes it harder to differentiate posts. And I'm just old with 50-something eyesight. Dear knows what it's like for those with real sight issues.

JenniferAlisonPhilipaSue · 27/04/2022 10:57

I have similar issues. The colours are awful

MNHQ

SueMumsnet · 27/04/2022 10:32

Hi all

Sorry for the delay in responding to this - it took a bit of time to look into the issues thoroughly to understand where we can make quick improvements and what needs a bit more investigation.

Most of the keyboard shortcut issues have been caused by the fact that we've moved to a text box plugin to make posting, formatting etc easier to do. But we've looked into it and we can sort the following things relatively quickly (ie in the next few days): add keyboard shortcuts for bold, underline and italic, we can make ctrl+enter work for posting and we can improve the accessibility of drop-down menus; we can also make the Mumsnet emojis work via keyboard shortcuts; and we'll make the small arrows and pagination bigger and bolder.

We know there are a few more things causing stress so beyond these fixes we'll be looking at those and making a plan for sorting any remaining issues. As we've said in other posts, we're absolutely committed to improving accessibility on Mumsnet so any other specific requests on what we can do to make it easier to use would be very much appreciated.

Silversprinkles · 27/04/2022 09:57

Come on @MNHQ please reply.

AchillesPoirot · 27/04/2022 09:20

How did the mobile website pass accessibility for those with fine motor issues?

Whinge · 27/04/2022 09:16

Ihatethenewlook · 27/04/2022 09:11

I think they hoped that everyone would get used to it after a few days and stop complaining. The changes are maddening though. This site gives me a literal headache after 5-10 mins. I don’t know how these things work but would it be that hard just to change it back the way it was?

Is that because of the brightness? If so you're not alone. I've had to add a dark mode just so I can continue to use the site. I've never had a problem with any other website, but the new platform gave me a headache due to how bright it is.

GentlySnoring · 27/04/2022 09:15

Agree with Daisychain01. Mumsnet’s Accessibility Statement is here and indeed is out of date but it does have a contact email + describes another way of feeding back accessibility concerns (via AIBU). Might be worth following these routes (though of course you shouldn’t have to),

As well as the Equality Act, public sector websites have to comply with additional legislation to make sure they are accessible (Accessibility Regulations 2018). I know this website isn’t public sector, but its audience is so wide you would think it would strive to meet these standards anyway, eg just one of the requirements in WCAG2.1 is “make sure everything works for keyboard-only users”.

I hope this can be fixed asap.

Ihatethenewlook · 27/04/2022 09:11

I think they hoped that everyone would get used to it after a few days and stop complaining. The changes are maddening though. This site gives me a literal headache after 5-10 mins. I don’t know how these things work but would it be that hard just to change it back the way it was?

MoMuntervary · 27/04/2022 08:58

Another bump. Also disabled and having problems with the tiny arrows and am missing the keyboard shortcuts.

Sorry it's worse for Voiceover users

ChesneyHawkesLoveChild · 27/04/2022 08:51

I am another disabled user who is struggling with the site, although not to the extent of voiceover users. I am also shocked that there has been no official comment on this thread!

Whinge · 27/04/2022 08:03

daisychain01 · 27/04/2022 07:21

Accessibility is a pretty basic prerequisite

it's more than just basic, it's a legal requirement under the Eqality Act (2010).

The MN policy on Accessibilty is massively out of date citing legislation that predated the EqA (2010) with patronising comments about giving everyone the ability to discuss Gregg's sausage rolls or some such tripe.

Wow! That's actually quite shocking. 😲

SaskiaRembrandt · 27/04/2022 07:41

I've reported the OP as well. Not sure if it will help.

Oddfood · 27/04/2022 07:26

daisychain01 · 27/04/2022 07:21

Accessibility is a pretty basic prerequisite

it's more than just basic, it's a legal requirement under the Eqality Act (2010).

The MN policy on Accessibilty is massively out of date citing legislation that predated the EqA (2010) with patronising comments about giving everyone the ability to discuss Gregg's sausage rolls or some such tripe.

Omg how embarrassing.

HaresHoping · 27/04/2022 07:23

This is shocking. Really unacceptable - MNHQ how are you going to address this?

daisychain01 · 27/04/2022 07:21

Accessibility is a pretty basic prerequisite

it's more than just basic, it's a legal requirement under the Eqality Act (2010).

The MN policy on Accessibilty is massively out of date citing legislation that predated the EqA (2010) with patronising comments about giving everyone the ability to discuss Gregg's sausage rolls or some such tripe.

Pyri · 27/04/2022 07:20

I’m surprised that MNHQ have just stopped responding to stuff about the site? I reported my own post on site stuff yesterday / day before to get an answer about AS and MNHQ haven’t responded. Weird?!

Onlythelaundryfairy · 27/04/2022 07:18

Bumping for you. This is unacceptable.