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Original poster

I’m concerned about the amount of misinformation on the Covid threads. Mumsnet have a duty of cars to their readers.

118 replies

Beadebaser · 05/01/2022 12:50

A few days ago I reported a post that linked to an unverified claim about a child with vaccine damage from the Covid jab. It is a case that has been weaponised by anti vaxxers and is highly controversial.

The response from Mumsnet was that the post didn’t break guidelines. I pointed out why it was misinformation and was told that their decision had been made - and I could simply turn off the Covid threads if I didn’t agree. I then linked a credible news article explaining why it was misinformation and that the case was being weaponised by anti vaxxers - and Mumsnet didn’t respond.
Misinformation is an online harm and Mumsnet has a duty of care to its readers.

Mumsnet is perhaps different to other social media platforms, as it’s readers often come looking for advice and support. Some readers may be vulnerable. This is why Mumsnet’s duty of care is particularly important.
I think Mumsnet should be doing more to tackle misinformation.
Debate is good, but many posters are being encouraged not to follow the NHS guidelines. If one vaccine hesitant person is deterred from making the right choice due to misinformation - this could lead to a chain of events that could mean someone is unnecessarily in iCU.
Things are pretty critical for hospitals right now, so I think it’s vital that Mumsnet does more to address the issue.

OP posts:
Original poster
Beadebaser · 06/01/2022 18:00

@Tealightsandd yes - and even better if they were more permanent and could step in on all threads. Dr Mumsnet.

OP posts:
Original poster
Beadebaser · 06/01/2022 17:58

@Dinosauria I agree that guilt trips are wrong too - and scare tactics - that would be counter productive.
I also try not to focus on ‘Boris’ - more so : is this what science is advising and why? If I don’t trust our government, then to look across Europe and see if other governments are doing the same. I can fully see why the advice surrounding vaccines is not ‘set in stone’ and I’ve never seen the vaccine as a be all and end all. The virus mutates, so the advice needs to change.

OP posts:
Tealightsandd · 06/01/2022 17:53

What would be brilliant is if MNHQ could get one of the fantastic scientists or doctors on to do one of those guest posts.

There are several on other social media platforms like twitter who are particularly good. Wonderfully calm clear-headed, articulate, well-explained and balanced sensible information. On Long Covid as well as other issues like vaccines.

I don't know if any of them would be willing or have the time, but I think it might help offer some expert reassurance for those who have any concerns or confusion including about vaccines.

Dinosauria · 06/01/2022 17:41

There are posts after posts of guilt trips regarding not having the vaccine, Boris and his you have to have the booster, one dose is useless (whilst supporting one dose for 12+, I know that has now changed to two doses but still) there have been loads of scare tactics to get people vaccinated.

Fwiw I don't in general disagree with what you are trying to achieve, I just feel it is a very slippery slope.

Original poster
Beadebaser · 06/01/2022 17:24

@Dinosauria no one is denying that - or trying to say vaccines are 100% safe.

But is showing a distressing video appropriate? How would you feel if I linked to videos of young children bouncing around full of health and happiness after having the vaccine - and tried to convince everyone that the vaccine is completely safe for children?

It would be misleading and wrong. Indeed - I would have a ‘stop’ button, I wouldn’t do it - because I know it would be medically inaccurate.

OP posts:
Dinosauria · 06/01/2022 17:14

@hamstersarse

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.
I actually agreed with your response.

Vaccines do have side effects. It is dangerous and disingenuous to claim otherwise and remove conversation relating to it.

They campaigned to get this removed

www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9823741/amp/Instagram-clip-woman-struggling-walk-vaccinated-fuels-anti-vax-sentiment.html

But it is a documented side effect. Life is terminal everything has risks. Much prefer robust discussion than censorship.

Original poster
Beadebaser · 06/01/2022 16:51

@Cornettoninja I agree and thanks for the link, I had a quick look. Sweden was every anti-Covid restrictions favourite country a while ago, so it’s interesting to hear their stance.

“We defend our open and democratic society and free opinions by identifying, analysing and responding to inappropriate influences and other misleading information directed at Sweden or Swedish interests.”

Yes @Newrunner29 - agree. It’s not as the above poster states ‘noone is daft enough to take as gospel’. People do! And it’s not about daftness either. The video I saw (the misinformation being that unvaccinated children were being refused entry to an event) had about 90% taking it at face value and believing. Then one poster linked to news reports stating the reality. It was simply that the event was sold out.

@hamstersarse - I’d really like to know- were you fully aware of the controversy surrounding the case study you shared - did you know that the video about her was made by an anti vaccine group/her lawyer is also controversial/vaccine opponent?

OP posts:
Newrunner29 · 06/01/2022 16:27

The whole Cambridge Analytica happened. Brittney kaiser told the uk inquiry that what CA did was equivalent to weapon grade warfare. Thats all about how targeted misinformation/disinformation is a genuine threat! It was illegal in the uk without ok from uk government. Misinformation and disinformation causes harm and needs to be taken seriously

Cornettoninja · 06/01/2022 16:17

It’s not really about people being daft or not or their perceived level of intelligence. Words, written or spoken, have power and influence and feeds into a much larger picture. Various military and intelligence agencies worldwide recognise this, it exists in varying degrees but it’s naive to think that everyone approaches information in the same way you do.

Sweden has just set up a psychological defence agency (www.mpf.se/en/), the internet has given us a whole avalanche of information the likes of which we’ve never had to consider the impact of in the history of civilisation and it’s thrown up a fair few moral dilemmas.

MeredithGreyishblue · 06/01/2022 16:01

I don’t think anyone's daft enough to take anything posted by a random anonymous on MN as gospel any more than they are on any other part of the Internet! Give people some credit.
If they are seeking out alternative views they aren't stopping because MNHebe deletes a thread.

Cornettoninja · 06/01/2022 15:54

Not unless you aim it directly at another poster.

hamstersarse · 06/01/2022 15:54

@Cornettoninja

It’s a personal attack…
It really wasn't though was it

I accept snarky and sarcy, but it wasn't a personal attack

hamstersarse · 06/01/2022 15:53

Too snarky again?

Cornettoninja · 06/01/2022 15:53

It’s a personal attack…

hamstersarse · 06/01/2022 15:53

Well that is a whole new form of deletions on Mumsnet. Snarky comments being deleted. Jeez the mods are going to be very busy.

Cornettoninja · 06/01/2022 15:49

@hamstersarse no it wasn’t, it was snarky and could well be interpreted as a personal attack. Your last comment is disingenuous.

Illustrates my reasoning behind wanting posts spoilered/hidden rather than completely deleted though. Any one reading has no way to know so they?

hamstersarse · 06/01/2022 15:29

Did you really just get my last comment deleted?

It was only reflecting back what you wanted to do by having posts deleted - saving lives

Original poster
Beadebaser · 06/01/2022 14:23

@hamstersarse

Oh come on. I do feel a slight sense of victory, but I’m trying to do it for the right reasons.

Out of interest, were you aware of the controversy - or did you believe it to be correct information?

OP posts:
hamstersarse · 06/01/2022 13:45

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Original poster
Beadebaser · 06/01/2022 13:03

Post has now been deleted - but took a lot of persistence - sadly.

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Original poster
Beadebaser · 06/01/2022 11:56

@KimMumsnet I would say discussion is vital, so long as the outcome is positive. As a society I think the best thing we can do is support schools and hospitals while things are critical. I’m sure we have made mistakes, nothing is ever perfect. If the outcome of the discussion is harmful - that someone is hurt, or unnecessarily admitted to ICU as a result - that’s when I think censorship (of varying degrees) needs to come into play. Perhaps more censorship is needed when things are critical, and less when hospitals and schools aren’t so stretched?

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Original poster
Beadebaser · 06/01/2022 11:48

@KimMumsnet @daisychain01 - has had a great suggestion that Mumsnet actually state when they delete that they believe that the post is misinformation - just to make it clear to other posters. Or link to NHS guidance.

I don’t want to shut down discussion - but I think greater clarity, and a quicker response is needed.

OP posts:
Original poster
Beadebaser · 06/01/2022 11:45

@KimMumsnet I’m just wondering if more can be done. I challenged the post on the thread, so the fact that it wasn’t removed with perhaps give the impression to other posters that the post is ‘true’.

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Original poster
Beadebaser · 06/01/2022 11:44

@KimMumsnet

Many thanks, that’s great - and sounds right!

The issue I have is that I reported a link about child vaccine damage that (having done a search) is unverified, controversial and has been weaponised by anti vaxxers.

I don’t think it’s the posters fault, but I did feel really uncomfortable with the post as it was on a thread by a Mum wanting advice for her child.

I’ve email several times now, I think initially I was told to hide the thread and it didn’t break terms and conditions, it seemed very difficult to challenge, and when I tried I got no response until yesterday when I started this thread.

The post is still up - as far as I’m aware.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 06/01/2022 11:23

I understand what people are saying but remain opposed to censorship and the restriction of our access to information, whether it is inaccurate or not.

Libel? Holocaust denial? Posts encouraging law breaking?

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