I’m concerned about the amount of misinformation on the Covid threads. Mumsnet have a duty of cars to their readers.

[quote Clymene]@Dinosauria - I'm a bit mystified how anyone gets from 'the vaccine doesn't protect as much as we'd hoped' (unsurprising - new virus, vaccine developed at lightning speed) to 'the vaccine is actively harmful and we should say no to it'.

Because that's what the antivaxxers are arguing. Do you support that POV?

Because all the science says that's wrong. [/quote]
Not at all, I'm all booster, vaccine supporter, kids have been jabbed and booked in for second. I do believe in vaccines (and before covid, we travel and have been vaccinated against everything)

I just don't think censorship is the way to promote things, would rather strong rebuttal.

So basically - I am really happy for MN to host a discussion about the efficacy of the vaccine. I think that's a valid and interesting discussion. But stuff like Naomi Klein is posting should be deleted I think.

@Dinosauria - I'm a bit mystified how anyone gets from 'the vaccine doesn't protect as much as we'd hoped' (unsurprising - new virus, vaccine developed at lightning speed) to 'the vaccine is actively harmful and we should say no to it'.

Because that's what the antivaxxers are arguing. Do you support that POV?

Because all the science says that's wrong.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-the-uk/boris-johnsons-vaccine-miracle/amp

Selling it as The Answer. I'm not questioning that the op was pointing out months ago that the vaccine wasn't a panacea, but it was being promoted as such.

We also saw yesterday the evidence from Public Health England that a single dose of either vaccine provides 60 per cent protection against getting COVID.

Single dose prevents you from getting it, so by implication a second dose would shorten these odds further

www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-statement-at-coronavirus-press-conference-18-march-2021

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/02/the-scientists-have-done-it-boris-johnson-hails-covid-vaccine

Guardian, so acceptable for some on MN

We have been waiting and hoping for the day when the searchlights of science would pick out our invisible enemy and give us the power to stop that enemy from making us ill. And now the scientists have done it, and they have used the virus itself to perform a kind of biological jiu-jitsu, to turn the virus on itself in the form of a vaccine.”

But he didn't mean 'stopping from making us ill'

[quote hamstersarse]Again, it depends on your point of view. Facebook certainly do do a lot of fact checking, but it is not true to say that is not contentious.

Even the BMJ have things to say about this 'fact checking' on social media - science is not black and white as I know everyone here knows. Things are never as straightforward as we would all like them to be, things surprise us, things are unexpected and for that reason, censoring information and conversation has always been the road to ruin - we can never have absolute certainty. Even this pandemic has shown that things we said a year ago as 'fact' simply aren't true now, and that includes 'facts' about the vaccine efficacy - do you want to censor people who are talking about the current effectiveness of the vaccines (not booster) and stick to the fact that last year they were 90% effective, but now can be less than 30% - do you class that as misinformation now?

You have to trust that people can make their own minds up and you don't need to caretake for people all the time.

www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1170[/quote]
Absolutely this. Stop trying to treat people like children!

The vaccine was going to help us out of it, and it has we r no longer in lockdowns and less people r going hospital and dying.

Im also not sure how that relates to misinformation and disinformation being shared on mumsnet and people believing it and it influencing them

I dont belive that the vaccine was going to solve everything and i dont belive that was the message the message was take vaccine and wont get as sick as someone who doesnt take vaccine which has been case.

Again I agree with hamster and cornetto I believe you are being disingenuous. The narrative from science and the government is that vaccines will solve this. They were peddled as a way of stopping you getting covid, two vaccines were the answer...until they weren't. I will find and post some articles later showing this

We all had equal access to exactly the same information which was publicised as widely as it could be yet we’re still left with a significant proportion of people who’ve largely gained the same information from other sources with heavy biases and now feel aggrieved that they were ‘lied’ to when actually they were given unbalanced information.

It’s happening with severe side effects from covid vaccines to some extent; yes some people experience severe side effects or even death but it’s not that it doesn’t matter it’s that various algorithms disproportionally feed people information giving them a skewed perspective. People then become tribalised and vulnerable to radicalism and the split we see currently in society.

@Beadebaser
Yes, I know the case is controversial but I probably think it’s controversial for different reasons to you.
I think the story has been played down and I think it’s extremely serious that Pfizer did not report the case in the trial data. Your point about them using ‘anti vaxx’ lawyers doesn’t really convince me of anything, such is the suppression of information and willingness to toe the line by most of the population and the entire vaccine evangelism which has emerged, it’s not a surprise to me that this law firm took it on. No one else would risk their reputation in this climate. But I just cannot square that with the background of the parents in this case, the father is in the medical field, the mother an engineer, the very fact their daughter was in the trial tells you they cannot possibly be anti vaxx.

I am skeptical about how Pharma companies have been operating for years. There are many reasons for that, none more than the hundreds of cases of falsified data, ineffective drugs, exaggerated claims, actual harm done to people. (Dopesick is a good look at this when it comes to OxyContin) It costs pfizer about a pound per dose and they are selling each dose for £22 to us. There is a lot of money involved here, and it’s naive to think that doesn’t impact behaviour. It is in Pfizer’s interests to vaccinate babies for example, but it’s unclear what the benefit is for a baby, and I do feel we are giving them an easy path with all of this given their history….the claims they made this time last year just haven’t born out. Pfizer CEO actually tweeted they have 100% efficacy in preventing tramsmission, it wasn’t a coincidence that Biden was shouting about this “get the vaccine and you won’t get covid” because that was the sales pitch from Pfizer.

The refusal to discuss the side effects are extremely concerning, I have seen some awful stats for myocarditis in young men, my son had it. But if you even try to discuss it you are shut down as an anti vaxxer and its minimised as being ‘minor’. I believe in informed consent and there is no doubt the level of coercion to get the vaccine is extraordinary given the refusal to be transparent about the risks. I just think shutting down the debate is risky 🤷‍♀️

I agree. The amount of comments that are spreading disinformation and the number of threads derailed by panicking covid deniers on mumsnet is horrifying. Recent examples.

A thread where someone is worried about a delayed ambulance - no mention of covid. Responses: “there were always delays, nothing to do with covid, we all need to get back to normal”

A thread where someone needs emotional and relationship support with a covid positive husband and a newborn baby. Responses: “get over yourself, you hate your husband and just using covid as an excuse, you need to get back to normal”

Faint negative PCR meaning cancelled Christmas. Responses: “you just hate your MIL/DH/DC (insert as appropriate), I can’t see a positive line, we need to get back to normal”

This is every area of mumsnet. It’s not a case of “hide the covid threads”. Every thread has a covid denier ranting about how everyone else is wrong. It is frightening and I do believe mumsnet has a duty of care to remove those comments. Not just because they’re spreading disinformation but because they’re derailing EVERY thread.

I don't think the vaccine was ever sold as a cure. Just that you were likely to be much less affected badly. People (and by that I mean the media too) misinterpreted the science.

I’ve never seen the vaccine as a be all and end all

But for months it has been presented as such, Boris is just the poster boy I agree, but this is the direction we have taken. I understand why people are perplexed that they still are poorly with covid after being boosted, I understand why people have lost faith in vaccination.
Media/government dictat sold vaccines as the answer, you are right it is much more complicated than that, they are a major part of the answer but not the get out of jail free card people were led to believe.