How to discuss BBC 100 women list?

I've been censored today for stating facts. Im allowed to be angry about that.

That is a fact. How can you delete facts? It starts with having to say 'transwomen' - no other variation on the same theme will do

Then they want 'women', cos woman isn't sex based. It's built on gender, but not stereotypes, no. It's the feelz of woman.

Then they were born women, wrongly assigned at birth, always woman, not female (yet). So just as much a woman as any other.

Then add a pinch of smoke and mirrors, lots of shouting about being hurted, lots of targetted aggression, threats to organisations (like MN) and individual,s (we all know who they are) and a new woman is born.

Trans women and cis women - notice the order is important

Women and non trans women

Cervix havers and women

We have seen so many variations on that theme.

We just need to know our place and all would be well with the world. You know this is true. So stop fighting it. TERF BIGOT etc etc

Tiresome!

And they've just deleted the thread my hyperbolic post was intended for. Jesus. This place these days

How can you delete posts regarding natal sex? It's a biological fact. Transwomen are not female whatever they change their birth certificate to. They can change gender but they can't change sex. That is a fact. How can you delete facts?

Wrong thread, in fact

Hyperbole.

Censoring political speech by oppressed groups is rarely a good look. Women discussing and accurately describing their ongoing mistreatment by men for men's benefit in a patriarchal world is no exception.

Nice to read all of that again

Here's the 'over my dead body' thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3544319-TRAs-try-to-ruin-Mumsnet-survey?msgid=85901543#85901543

It chilled me that women like me could be a target just for our sex
Shame on Canada.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

He did.

And he continues to do so. Note how he hasn't even begun to defend himself from the daftness. He doesn't nee to as those iof us who have been here for a while have seen him in action and, whilst disgreeing with the T+Cs , can agree that he is doing a bloody good job under increasingly fractious circumstances.

I don't care that he is male. We REALLY don't have to play into the MN = man hating, transphobic bigots trope. Do we?

That's correct, @ErrolTheDragon. He also banhammered Joss P with the 'Go well' message.

MichaelMumsnet is a man and has been doing a very good job of steering very stormy waters for some years now.

At one fractious point in the past, I'm sure I recollect him saying that the womens rights board would only be shut down over his dead body.

“ We don’t wish to prevent anyone from asserting as part of their gender critical position that transwomen are born male….”

It’s not a “gender critical position” that TW are ‘born male’ - they are male, every cell in their body is male from conception to death. Humans can’t change sex.

We have to be able to deal in facts.

We are allowed to call god “sky fairy” or “invisible best friend” which I’m sure Is deeply offensive to many religious posters, but we have to tiptoe around the indisputable fact that TW are male, and the word in English for an adult human male is “man”.

Not been here long @LegoPandemic?

MichaelMumsnet is a man and has been doing a very good job of steering very stormy waters for some years now.

Mumsnet isn't a public service, it's a privately owned site and is one of the very few places where these discussions are allowed to take place. We know that it has been relentlessly targetted by MRAs and TRAs for this very reason. We know the tide has turned and I don't doubt that the targetting has got much worse as a result, because that's the vicious, vindictive modus operandi we have come to know so well.

I'd be willing to bet that MNHQ is deluged by reports from the usual suspects - several of whom are extremely litigious - which must be a drain on resources as well as a personal strain on individuals responding to them.

I didn't see the threads in question and I don't always agree with MNHQ's decisions but it's not that hard to adhere to guidelines whilst still getting our point across. We've done it for years and we're winning.

Frankly, I think some on this thread should be ashamed of themselves for the way they are addressing MNHQ in general and MichaelMumsnet in particular. Unless they are agents provocateur, of course, which wouldn't surprise me.

The Usual Suspects will be rubbing their thighs with glee while reading (and posting) on this thread. Don't play into their grubby hands.

MNHQ need to pop outside and look which way the wind is blowing at the moment.

[quote ErrolTheDragon]I'm really upset about the deletion of the Montreal massacre thread. Tbh I was a bit annoyed that it turned out more about some horrible self-promoting person than about the event itself... that should perhaps have been a different thread.

In all seriousness, read and weep

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/École_Polytechnique_massacre[/quote]
I graduated with an first class honours Engineering degree in 1989. I remember this massacre. It chilled me that women like me could be a target just for our sex
Shame on Canada.

As a pp commented, it's MNHQ sitting on the fence to ensure they are on the 'right side of history'. If the erosion of women's rights continues in the name of 'trans rights', they cannot be censured by TRA's because they can point to their rate of reports/deletions to show that 'transphobic' comments were deleted and 'civil debate' was the order of the day. On the other hand, if the tide turns and women's rights are upheld and restored, then they can point to the discussions and state their oft repeated view that 'they were one of the only places where such debate was allowed' (which is no longer true due to the rise of other sites such as Overit), even if such discussions were censored to the point where actual biological facts where unable to be stated (despite the Forstater result).

I had actually thought the moderation was becoming more reasonable after the Forstater result - there's been language used (factual language) which never would have flown this time last year. This week seems to have been a step back - I assume there has been some sort of co-ordinated attack by TRA's.

I've not received a response to why self harm promotion is ok on mumsnet. They've picked a side and now that side, I suspect, isn't feeling very comfortable. They'll need to double down and change the name of the site to parentsnet.com. I hope that url is available

I'm really upset about the deletion of the Montreal massacre thread. Tbh I was a bit annoyed that it turned out more about some horrible self-promoting person than about the event itself... that should perhaps have been a different thread.

In all seriousness, read and weep

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/École_Polytechnique_massacre