How to discuss BBC 100 women list?

Oh thanks Bore! I didn't know that the phrase was mentioned in the rules, I only saw pages of people being confused about it because no one was telling them what the problem was. I could have saved myself a lot of effort by just linking if I'd known.

🤣

I cannot fucking BELIEVE that got deleted. But it's so beautifully Kafkaesque that I'm not even mad.

This is actually insane; there's are a bunch of people here confused about why a thread got deleted and no one is allowed to tell them. I was just trying to tell people what the phrase is that they aren't allowed to say without actually saying it! I genuinely thought it was a good effort.

I'll just reiterate that the phrase in question is liberally thrown around on Ovarit. And they don't play Humpty Dumpty with the dictionary there either.

@allmywhat

The use of TIM is a term that is expressly mentioned in

It's been the case ever since www.mumsnet.com/i/trans-rights-moderation-policy was introduced.

That said, it’s clear that most trans people find the use of pronouns or names that they or others have consciously rejected, to be hurtful and would therefore struggle to engage in a discussion with those who insist on using them. The same is true of the expression ‘Trans-Identified Male’ or ‘TIM’. Likewise, many feminists are affronted by the term ‘cis’ and ‘terf’, so using these terms will make civil debate less likely. As we’ve said, context is everything – but our moderation team will most likely delete these expressions if we feel they're being used in a deliberately inflammatory way. It's also discussed further in the guidelines.

Another important bit that I think applies to several posters on this thread (not getting at you)

*One thing we can simply no longer tolerate, however, is rudeness and aggression towards our mod team who are doing their utmost to allow this difficult but important debate to go ahead on Mumsnet, sometimes in highly stressful situations. So please do bear that in mind.

I've just been and had a look, they are saying all sorts! Some stuff is getting deleted, but it's a proper argument debate going on

Are you allowed to use dictionary definitions for people in weird cult like religions over on ovarit? Or do you need to jump through weird hoops to make sure you don't 'offend' any men?

I like the look of ovarit. Going to take a look around. Thanks!

The École Polytechnique thread has been reviewed and reinstated.

Their mistake

Datun
the Coop suddenly realised that it had been an intern who had threatened to pull the advertising, and they would be given a stern talking to.

It's never ever the intern.

The big companies have a script. They train the 1st line employees with 1 basic rule stick to the script and if it's not in the script refer "it" to senior management.

Talking BS about pulling advertising is not in the script so it was not ever going to be a junior member of staff that tweeted.
The mistake was that other companies had rolled over at the threats.

Now if I remember correctly it was the same day or just after the Charlie Hebdo anniversary so the timing would have been a PR nightmare.

Andrew Neils response was very on point about abuse by financial control.

It left the Coop in a position they did not think would or could happen, where their action was clearly wrong.

The reason I wonder is that I cannot imagine what HQ stands to gain from these deletions. They're not pleasing anyone on their own site. And they're going against the tide of public opinion.

MN aren't concerned with pleasing their user base; they are concerned, however, with revenue.

Has one of their advertisers suddenly started to turn the screws, I wonder.

I can imagine it becoming quite specific if the advertiser has been captured.

I remember the Coop threatening to pull advertising from the Spectator because of something they wrote. And Andrew Neils response.

No need to bother, Co-op. As of today you are henceforth banned from advertising in The Spectator, in perpetuity. We will not have companies like yours use their financial might to try to influence our editorial content, which is entirely a matter for the editor.

Realising that they were just about to lose a major source of advertising for ever, whilst looking bad, the Coop suddenly realised that it had been an intern who had threatened to pull the advertising, and they would be given a stern talking to.

The reason I wonder is that I cannot imagine what HQ stands to gain from these deletions. They're not pleasing anyone on their own site. And they're going against the tide of public opinion.

A TAAT about the deleted École Polytechnique thread has just been taken down but the deletion message says that MNHQ will be looking at the deleted thread.

I sincerely hope that should my comment be deleted it it should be for the homonym typo of their instead of there*

Please can the Mumsnet admin team review the moderation policy on the discussions around women's rights as related to sex and gender.

This is a vast site and gender critical feminists are herded into one small subforum when we talk about these issues. And even in that one "feminist" place on this one site with "Mum" in its name our language is policed to the point where we cannot speak clearly about matters that deeply affect us and all women and girls.

Please, #nodebate's grip on the BBC and other media outlets is failing. In light of Nolan's Stonewall podcasts, the treatment of Kathleen Stock, and other GC women, the release of Material Girls, Trans and Feminism for Women.

Surely all of that counts for something?

Are you going to wait until the damage to women and girls of this ideology is even harder to ignore? Did you see that Swedish documentary about the consequences of puberty blockers? The damage being caused to gender non-conforming children and teens is already a scandal. Pretending reality and physical biology don't exist is not kind to anyone.

Why can we not discuss the problems openly of male sexed people usurping female sexed people on the sex and gender subforum of the feminist part of a site for women? Can't we have that crumb?

Why do we need to centre male born people in a female space?

If Mumsnet was instead a site specifically for disabled women, with an amputee rights forum, would you expect disabled women posting their to have to be careful how they talked about their needs and experiences as female amputees incase they inadvertently excluded abled bodied women who wanted a healthy limb removed because it didn't feel like theirs?

People with xenomelia should be treated with compassion after all, it must be a very distressing condition.

Or would you acknowledge that whilst people with that distressing condition do need a support group, that a forum for people who had no choice but to be amputees, where they discuss their pain and experiences and how society can adapt to better meet their needs, is not the correct group. That the amputees shouldn't be made to be support humans or validation centers for the able bodied jealous of their unchosen suffering?

Come on, Mumsnet, I know it is a contentious issue, but I think the guidelines need reviewing.

Then add a pinch of smoke and mirrors, lots of shouting about being hurted, lots of targetted aggression, threats to organisations (like MN) and individual,s (we all know who they are) and a new woman is born.

Don't forget the lippy and heels.

Or penis people and vagina people?

and the vulnerable mother has now confirmed she's suicidal and calling the samaritans.

@MNHQ @Justine @LilyMumsnet @HopeMumsnet @MichaelMumsnet how could you?

MNHQ today:

• delete a thread about the massacre of 14 women and one memorialising those women and a key speaker at their memorial who likes posting pictures of guns on social media

• repeatedly delete BBC 100 women threads, a list of 97 women, 50 of whom are Afghan and cannot possibly identify out of their oppression

• say that posts (by one poster - 0PhthaloBlue0 ) linking to 'breast binding', 'hormones' and puberty blockers, fall under 'support and advice' and allow a thread supporting a vulnerable mother of a lesbian daughter to derail.

At least one of the posts, by 0PhthaloBlue0, breaks the law.
This thread gives advice on how to report it
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4420827-Promoting-puberty-blockers-is-an-offence