Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Site stuff

Join our Innovation Panel to try new features early and help make Mumsnet better.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

An algorithm to remove 'Karen'?

182 replies

BIWI · 01/09/2021 14:43

It's a horrible misogynistic and ageist term.

I know you have an algorithm that deletes posts that mention certain other websites; is it possible to have an algorithm that at the very least deletes the word if it's being used? And then automatically posts to say that a word has been deleted because it breaks Talk Guidelines?

(I appreciate that if anyone is on the Baby Names board asking about 'Karen' that might be more difficult!)

The thing is, there are posters who don't seem to realise just what a horrible thing it is to say, but then the rest of their post is filled with people calling them on it, so they never really get an answer to their question.

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
WomanStanleyWoman · 18/09/2021 20:28

@BIWI

Please - no more suggestions (even if funny!). Otherwise it dilutes what I'm asking MNHQ to consider. There are very few things that really should be deleted, even if we don't like the words, but this one does fall foul of key MN Talk Guidelines.
Ridiculous.
Cutabove · 14/09/2021 13:52

Can we also stop the word woke being used in a derogatory manner?

Janaih · 10/09/2021 18:35

Pretty sure I've never seen Karen Millen mentioned on the s&b boards or Karen touted on the baby names Grin

Original poster
BIWI · 10/09/2021 18:21

I didn't mean a pile-on on this thread - I meant on the one that prompted me to write this one.

And I absolutely do not, never have and never will minimise racism. Or any other 'ism' that's against Talk Guidelines.

OP posts:
Deletesystem33 · 10/09/2021 18:09

You see q pileo n. I see justified criticism or your minimising of racism. But thankfully you won't get what you want.

Original poster
BIWI · 10/09/2021 18:04

no matter, obviously ...

OP posts:
Original poster
BIWI · 10/09/2021 18:03

@AuntieStella and @JustineMumsnet I agree!

TBH I started this thread out of frustration and anger at yet another thread using 'Karen' thoughtlessly, but also seeing it being derailed by the whole pile-on afterwards.

Reading through all the comments here it's evident that it just wouldn't work.

It's still a bit Shock how many people either don't know what it means to call someone a 'Karen' - or simply don't think it's a problem.

Thanks for all the considered responses, and especially those posters who get where I was coming from, now matter how ill-thought-through my OP was!

OP posts:
MNHQ
JustineMumsnet · 10/09/2021 16:30

@AuntieStella

There are many, many posts about people called Karen - singers, actors, characters on telly etc, plus brands that get regularly mentioned in S&B and a speaker who is discussed in FWR. Plus it still crops up in baby name threads.

The word Karen is not in itself unacceptable - all those uses above are entirely acceptable. Arguably, threads talking about why the use of the term 'Karen' as a stereotype/insult sound also be deemed acceptable (or should this entire thread be autodeleted, because the number of mentions of Karen?)

It is the unacceptable use as an insult that is the problem, not the correct use. And autodelete wouldn't be able to differentiate (that's very core of the 'auto' part, is it not?

What AuntieStella said!
AuntieStella · 10/09/2021 14:19

There are many, many posts about people called Karen - singers, actors, characters on telly etc, plus brands that get regularly mentioned in S&B and a speaker who is discussed in FWR. Plus it still crops up in baby name threads.

The word Karen is not in itself unacceptable - all those uses above are entirely acceptable. Arguably, threads talking about why the use of the term 'Karen' as a stereotype/insult sound also be deemed acceptable (or should this entire thread be autodeleted, because the number of mentions of Karen?)

It is the unacceptable use as an insult that is the problem, not the correct use. And autodelete wouldn't be able to differentiate (that's very core of the 'auto' part, is it not?

peachgreen · 10/09/2021 11:24

@Wed8pril Karen is not an "unacceptable term". It's just sometimes used in a context you don't like. It does not have the long history of violence associated with it that racial or homophobic slurs do. Nobody has been lynched whilst being called a Karen. They are not the same thing.

Wed8pril · 10/09/2021 09:29

@MichaelMumsnet

Just so you know, we're working on filters and auto alerts so that unacceptable terms like the N-word never appear on site. In the meantime, please keep reporting and we'll get straight on it.
But not Karen?
MNHQ
MichaelMumsnet · 09/09/2021 09:44

Just so you know, we're working on filters and auto alerts so that unacceptable terms like the N-word never appear on site.
In the meantime, please keep reporting and we'll get straight on it.

DeeCeeCherry · 08/09/2021 19:24

On the most recent of the million Karen threads on here, someone directly compared Karen to the N and P words, which they typed out uncensored. Mumsnet did not automatically filter them out*

I saw that too. Fully typed out. & On another recent thread to do with race, on the Feminism Board. They know they can get away with it. Abhorrent.

Pinkyjack · 08/09/2021 19:09

Maybe the name should be changed to a male name like Ken 🤪

SingleStrongWoman1 · 08/09/2021 18:57

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Acarp · 08/09/2021 18:51

@BIWI

You want Karen to be auto deleted when other, far worse terms are not. Special treatment.

Original poster
BIWI · 08/09/2021 18:43

@Acarp

So no special treatment. Good shout.
I was never, ever, asking for special treatment. Why on earth would you think that? Hmm

Thanks @JustineMumsnet.

OP posts:
Acarp · 08/09/2021 17:34

So no special treatment. Good shout.

MNHQ
JustineMumsnet · 08/09/2021 15:16

Thanks for raising this Biwi. We do, obviously, agree that this term is often used in a derogatory way but we've never auto deleted words on Mumsnet because, as has been pointed out upthread, algorithms tend to be imperfect and in any case people find workarounds - the best thing is to report it's use and we'll take a look asap and certainly delete it where it's used as an attack or put down.

Why2why · 08/09/2021 12:41

It also shows the ignorance of those who seek to equate it to racism and tells you all you need to know about where they are with being anti-racism.

adrianmolesmole · 07/09/2021 20:48

@severelysound

But Karen should not be treated as though it is worse than racial slurs.

Especially since it's used as a slur for a behaviour and not a protected characteristic.

As I've pointed out on this thread many timed, it's not even on the same playing field as a racist, sexist, ageist or ableist etc slur.

At best you could equate it with 'thug' or 'idiot' or 'snowflake' or 'cocklodger'. I.e a word you'd call someone displaying behaviours you don't like / agree with. Displaying behaviours you want to shame or call out.

All of those words are insulting and horrible to various extents... but they aren't used to put down / insult an entire class of people with a protected characteristic like the N word or P word, or even the B word.

Trying to pretend the K word is used to insult an entire group of people who share the same protected characteristic is madness.

Absolutely this.

It's not putting down ALL women of a certain age, as is often claimed by MNers. It only refers to certain women who behave in a certain way. It's ridiculous for anyone to say it's somehow equal to racism. IT IS NOT.

adrianmolesmole · 07/09/2021 20:34

@SweetPetrichor

Don’t be daft, how can you sensor a name. Karen’s gonna Karen. Wink
Grin
Why2why · 07/09/2021 18:47

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Can you also imagine how appalling it is to read and/or be on the receiving end of racist slurs and racisms whether overt or covert

It must be awful, there is no doubt about it, but does it make you feel better when other people are being unreasonably insulted?

Oh it must be awful? Just only awful?
severelysound · 07/09/2021 14:44

But Karen should not be treated as though it is worse than racial slurs.

Especially since it's used as a slur for a behaviour and not a protected characteristic.

As I've pointed out on this thread many timed, it's not even on the same playing field as a racist, sexist, ageist or ableist etc slur.

At best you could equate it with 'thug' or 'idiot' or 'snowflake' or 'cocklodger'. I.e a word you'd call someone displaying behaviours you don't like / agree with. Displaying behaviours you want to shame or call out.

All of those words are insulting and horrible to various extents... but they aren't used to put down / insult an entire class of people with a protected characteristic like the N word or P word, or even the B word.

Trying to pretend the K word is used to insult an entire group of people who share the same protected characteristic is madness.

Eggfriedpower · 07/09/2021 14:19

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

No. That’s not what I’m saying. Nowhere have I drawn a comparison between the two. What I’m asking is does it make you feel better when someone else is insulted?
No, and I don't see anyone saying it does.

But Karen should not be treated as though it is worse than racial slurs.