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Original poster

Request to remove the word 'debate' from ' Feminism: Sex & gender debate'

168 replies

Thelnebriati · 27/06/2021 16:52

Can you please remove the word 'debate'? It doesn't add anything.

Especially if the trans widows threads are to remain on the board.

OP posts:
oxalisRed · 28/06/2021 09:17

Agree.

Don't like the new division either.

Femwitch · 28/06/2021 09:17

Agree - thanks for starting this thread OP

WanderinWomb · 28/06/2021 09:08

I 100% agree and to save our typing energy many have said why in this linked thread , particularly the last couple of pages

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4276803-so-mumsnet-ignored-our-request-to-have-something-to-do-with-feminism-or-women-in-the-name-of-the-naughty-step-subtopic?pg=6

LangClegsInSpace · 28/06/2021 08:41

Agree

Datun · 28/06/2021 08:40

Agree.

Bowednotbroken · 28/06/2021 07:54

Agree too

EmpressWitchDoesntBurn · 28/06/2021 01:46

Agree too.

HeronLanyon · 28/06/2021 01:28

Absolutely agree with this request.

Fallingirl · 28/06/2021 00:30

I agree it’s important to be specific that it is ‘gender identity” and not “gender” that is the subject here. Not being specific causes confusion.

But regarding the OP, the last couple of days have really shown how the split of the board, and adding “debate” to the name, has brought some deeply unpleasant hounding of trans widows to the board.

It would be the right thing to do to remove the the word “debate”.

Original poster
Thelnebriati · 27/06/2021 23:24

@R0wantrees

I'm surprised that it is not, "sex and gender identity". The FWR chat special rules were originally titled "sex and gender" and MNHQ agreed to change them to more accurately reflect the issues which are the balancing of sex and gender identity (not gender).

This is made clear in the recent Maya Forstater ETA ruling where it is established that both a belief and lack of belief in gender identity is protected.

I didn't realise that was the original suggestion, and agree its much better than the current title.
OP posts:
OnceUponAMidnightBeery · 27/06/2021 22:49

@EstherMumsnet

Evening! Just to let you know we've seen this and will discuss it with the team.
Can you please also discuss again why the FWR boards have been split? In light of the recent MF judgement?
LizzieSiddal · 27/06/2021 22:46

I agree that it should be “gender identity”

OnceUponAMidnightBeery · 27/06/2021 22:45

Agree.

Stopsnowing · 27/06/2021 22:45

Agree. The subject isn’t up for debate. It is about defending biological reality and sex based women’s rights

ErrolTheDragon · 27/06/2021 22:44

And I do think there should always BE debate on this issue, that’s a given, but I’m not personally coming to post on this topic TO debate 99% of the time. Obviously other posters may feel differently.

I think that puts well how many of us feel.

Melroses · 27/06/2021 22:43

Agree. The word "debate" is superfluous.

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 27/06/2021 22:40

@RedDogsBeg

Another vote in agreement with the OP.
Same

Transwidows are being hung out to dry…

RedDogsBeg · 27/06/2021 21:39

Another vote in agreement with the OP.

QuinnMovesOn · 27/06/2021 21:33

@EstherMumsnet, thank you! The intent here isn't to squash other discussions, but particularly to enable support group threads. I particupate frequently in the TransWidow support threads, and have found those discussions to be essential for my own healing from trauma. These threads are not for debates. Again, many thanks.

DialSquare · 27/06/2021 21:31

Adding my agreement too.

MNHQ
EstherMumsnet · 27/06/2021 21:19

Evening! Just to let you know we've seen this and will discuss it with the team.

ChattyLion · 27/06/2021 21:15

‘Debate’ sounds like people talking about a very two-sided, morally complex thing with loads of grey areas and all very abstracted. Actually these are quite simple questions- should women have rights to privacy, safety, dignity, or not? Should children be subject to experimental unproven ‘treatments’ that they can’t give proper consent to or not? Is being a woman a biological fact, or is it an emotional feeling? And so on.
These issues are also way too practical and real for ‘debate’ to feel appropriate if this topic is the only place we can talk about them.
We also use the threads for sharing resources, moral support, campaign updates, news. It’s not all people ‘debating’. There could be a subhead for debate, fine, if there’s demand for that.

And I do think there should always BE debate on this issue, that’s a given, but I’m not personally coming to post on this topic TO debate 99% of the time. Obviously other posters may feel differently.

I think it’s simpler to have FWR where gender and sex issues can still be discussed as before tbh ..

Zeev · 27/06/2021 20:51

Agree.

ClosdesMouches · 27/06/2021 20:48

Agree

ChattyLion · 27/06/2021 20:10

Agree.