Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Site stuff

Join our Innovation Panel to try new features early and help make Mumsnet better.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Request to remove the word 'debate' from ' Feminism: Sex & gender debate'

168 replies

Thelnebriati · 27/06/2021 16:52

Can you please remove the word 'debate'? It doesn't add anything.

Especially if the trans widows threads are to remain on the board.

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 22/07/2021 10:17

Oh god I forgot about sex positive 😀

GAHgamel · 22/07/2021 09:20

@RufustheBadgeringReindeer

I assume from the context it's intended as the converse of 'gender critical

But how does that work

Gender critical I get, I don’t get sex critical…does it mean being critical of the idea that there are two sexes do you think?

See I thought "sex critical" was the opposite of "sex positive", which is an entirely different debate from a few years ago. And in that case it's entirely possible to be sex critical and gender critical at the same time. Smile
ErrolTheDragon · 21/07/2021 14:36

I suppose, or critical of the weird idea that they actually matter....
(Tbh I think Justine may have invented it as a sort of polite 'balanced' euphemism.)

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 21/07/2021 14:05

I assume from the context it's intended as the converse of 'gender critical

But how does that work

Gender critical I get, I don’t get sex critical…does it mean being critical of the idea that there are two sexes do you think?

ErrolTheDragon · 21/07/2021 12:06

And what waitwhat said - yeah, obviously

ErrolTheDragon · 21/07/2021 12:04

@RufustheBadgeringReindeer

Whats a sex critical belief?

I mean i do criticise sex

Dh doesn't like it but he's gotta learn

Is it like that?

I assume from the context it's intended as the converse of 'gender critical'?
JellySlice · 20/07/2021 23:18

@Waitwhat23

Thank you for changing the title of the board as well as correcting the name of the guidelines for this board. However, this bit of your guidelines -

2. We don’t allow posts which are derogatory or aggressive towards trans people. We believe there are ways to express both opinion and facts without crossing this line.

Really needs to say instead 'We don’t allow posts which are derogatory or aggressive. We believe there are ways to express both opinion and facts without crossing this line'

Otherwise it rather gives the impression that it's OK to make posts which are derogatory and aggressive towards GC Feminists?

Thirded.
RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 20/07/2021 22:47

Whats a sex critical belief?

I mean i do criticise sex

Dh doesn't like it but he's gotta learn

Is it like that?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 20/07/2021 21:41

@Waitwhat23

Thank you for changing the title of the board as well as correcting the name of the guidelines for this board. However, this bit of your guidelines -

2. We don’t allow posts which are derogatory or aggressive towards trans people. We believe there are ways to express both opinion and facts without crossing this line.

Really needs to say instead 'We don’t allow posts which are derogatory or aggressive. We believe there are ways to express both opinion and facts without crossing this line'

Otherwise it rather gives the impression that it's OK to make posts which are derogatory and aggressive towards GC Feminists?

Seconded
TheSlayer · 20/07/2021 14:29

Or change to include women

  1. We don’t allow posts which are derogatory or aggressive towards trans people or women expressing beliefs based on the fact that humans have two distinct sexes and a woman's biological reality, not gender identity, is the source of oppression (GC feminists). We believe there are ways to express both opinion and facts without crossing this line.
LangClegsInSpace · 20/07/2021 14:16

Thank you

Waitwhat23 · 19/07/2021 18:57

Thank you for changing the title of the board as well as correcting the name of the guidelines for this board. However, this bit of your guidelines -

2. We don’t allow posts which are derogatory or aggressive towards trans people. We believe there are ways to express both opinion and facts without crossing this line.

Really needs to say instead 'We don’t allow posts which are derogatory or aggressive. We believe there are ways to express both opinion and facts without crossing this line'

Otherwise it rather gives the impression that it's OK to make posts which are derogatory and aggressive towards GC Feminists?

Furries · 19/07/2021 18:12

That’s great news re the title change - thank you.

Original poster
Thelnebriati · 19/07/2021 16:38

Thank you, the change is appreciated.

OP posts:
AlfonsoTheMango · 19/07/2021 14:12

Thank you for agreeing to change the word "debate" to "discussion", a more appropriate term.

NoSquirrels · 19/07/2021 14:05

Thank you, Justine. I’m really pleased you’ll change ‘debate’ in the title.

I continue to believe MNHQ is doing a valuable thing. Thanks to the moderators.

TheSlayer · 19/07/2021 13:29

Thank you, Justine. Much appreciated.

MNHQ
JustineMumsnet · 19/07/2021 13:12

Afternoon, everyone,

As MichaelMumsnet previously posted our intention in creating these two boards was to make it clear that conversations to do with self-id and sex based vs gender based rights could be found in one topic and could be avoided if folks so wished (as some users said they’d like to). So far we think that is working well - we’ve had to move relatively few threads and people seem to know where to post things. As importantly, the discussions about these issues haven’t been derailed or diminished - Mumsnet is still somewhere you can freely express gender critical beliefs (so long as you remain civil) without being hounded or vilified or accused of being a bigot.

However, we can see people feel strongly that the word ‘discussion’ is preferable to ‘debate’ and as it’s clear that it’s something that is important to many of you, we’re going to change the title accordingly. We’ll get that done asap.

With regard to the transwidows threads, since the split of the boards they have continued unabated along with the undoubted support they provide. So we’re going to keep them in this topic as they clearly relate to the Trans issue and hopefully given the title change from Debate to Discussion this sits easier with folks.

One further thing. We don’t think that posts expressing sex critical beliefs here are necessarily bullying or trolling, as long as they are made in a civil way and within our guidelines but we do treat posts on their merit and we always look into posting histories etc so if you have concerns about any post or poster report it and we will of course take a look.

Thanks, as ever, for all the input.

TheSlayer · 19/07/2021 10:24

@YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet please could you take another look at the main concern of this thread? Namely the use of the word debate instead of discussion to header a section that contains the transwidows thread.
Posters who use that thread for support have been unfairly targeted.
Posters who use that thread have said they feel the feminism section is best for them as being in relationships would encourage those with very little empathy or understanding to chip in and offer advice. They just want a safe space to discuss very sad and emotional parts of their life and the board shift has meant that their space has been exposed to bullies.

As Mumsnet are clearly working on the technicalities of the site now would be a good time to address it, as I am sure you have someone able to remove the word or replace it with discussion.

Many thanks!

MNHQ
YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet · 19/07/2021 09:57

[quote Thelnebriati]Posters have just realised that the 'Mumsnet moderation principles for discussions around gender identity and sex' are now titled;

Trans Rights Moderation Policy.
www.mumsnet.com/i/trans-rights-moderation-policy[/quote]
Hi @Thelnebriati - thanks so much for alerting us. We're replatforming the site at the moment and this was an error. We've now changed it back to the original title.

Melroses · 17/07/2021 17:59

@Ereshkigalangcleg

What about women's rights?
Quite.

It is supposed to be a Feminism board after all.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/07/2021 17:15

What about women's rights?

LangClegsInSpace · 17/07/2021 14:29

Just catching up with this. Terrible response from Michael, it's difficult to imagine how someone could miss the point so spectacularly unless it was willful.

What on earth is the issue with simply removing the word 'debate' or changing it to 'discussion'? What actual problem would that cause?

And yes, what's the deal with the new title on the special rules page?

Here's an archived version:

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20210615125010/www.mumsnet.com/info/trans-rights-moderation-policy" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20210615125010/www.mumsnet.com/info/trans-rights-moderation-policy

Original poster
Thelnebriati · 17/07/2021 13:35

Posters have just realised that the 'Mumsnet moderation principles for discussions around gender identity and sex' are now titled;

Trans Rights Moderation Policy.
www.mumsnet.com/i/trans-rights-moderation-policy

OP posts:
PickAChew · 16/07/2021 14:19

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.