Any chance of a review of the FWR moderation rules in light of Maya Forstater's success in court please?

It's really not about the haters - it's about the regular users who have a different take to GC feminists but still consider themselves feminists.

So?

Why do they get feminism chat and not us?

This is crazy.

We can start separate threads in a topic. They’ll just have to deal with that.

Yes

And yes, of course it's going to be a magnet for trolls.

Sounds like a reframe of the don't debate this. Don't debate this here.

You well know how many women have learnt about these issues as a direct result of reading threads in FWR. There's been a whole book written on it.

Would this new proposed topic be included in active threads?

It's really not about the haters - it's about the regular users who have a different take to GC feminists but still consider themselves feminists

So GC feminist and libfems then...

Poll, not survey.

The monitors like Shitz have been pushing for this for sometime. But these are users here to deliberately disrupt women's opportunity to discuss the truth. Why are their views the most important? Why not canvass the opinion of women first?

Justine, you haven't responded to the actual issue.

It doesn't matter where these discussions take place.

The point is that you have special rules for moderating pro- and anti-gender theory discussions, and that those rules privilege the pro- posters and inhibit the anti- posters.

In the light of the Forstater judgement, you may well be illegally discriminating against a protected belief - one side is allowed to fully express their protected belief; the other side is not.

This can constitute a hostile and degrading environment, regardless of board organisation.

We are asking you to reconsider these asymmetric moderating rules and the often inconsistent application of them in the light of an important court judgement.

Will you?

Could you do a user survey where people have to be logged in to do it, and then poll user feelings about the topics? Possibly dividing into new vs older members too?

I just wonder if the "many requests" aren't actually that many compared to people who haven't requested it ... if you see what I mean.

If actually 80% of regular mumsnetters would prefer a new division, you can see that it would be popular.

Well the aim here is to facilitate the many requests we've had for a reorganisation from those who are keen to discuss, for example, inequality and stereotyping but want to avoid discussions around the trans vs women's rights debate. So yes we'd ask you to post accordingly.

Are these regular FWR posters? Or is Feminism Chat being handed over to people who currently don't/rarely post there?

This feels like a coup de tat.

inever i do sort of agree in theory but can't see how it'd work without ppl having fun and games getting threads moved.

Eg in Feminism: "these mothers were all victims of stalking, what can we do about it? "
Goader: mothers? You're grouping them according to their sex? Can this be moved to the Sex and Gender forum please mods?

I know some of you will be disappointed that we insist on respectful language and inclusivity

blimey Justine. Thanks ever so

This didn't start because women here are inherently transphobic, it started because anything and everything women said about biology, biological sex and the way women's lives are uniquely affected by these things and their lived experiences in a patriarchy, was labelled transphobic. This is happening both on MN and in wider society. Give this a go and see what happens, I can absolutely guarantee you that the policing of women's speech by the monitors will continue, because they find so many women's issues exclusionary (because they affect biological women). It. Will. Never. Be. Enough.

I also don't see how it's going to work, other than the way it's happened naturally, now.

Everyone will still post in sex and gender, about everything, because that's what feminism is about.

There are already three or four other feminist sections that never get used.

It seems odd to be creating a further one, and appears driven by what people don't want to hear, rather than what they do.

If there are a whole load of topics that people want to talk about, but can't get a word in edgeways, there are four other boards on which to do it! But they don't.

Isn't this the second iteration of people not wanting to hear women talk about this? Isn't that what feminism chat is, anyway?

Well the aim here is to facilitate the many requests we've had for a reorganisation from those who are keen to discuss, for example, inequality and stereotyping but want to avoid discussions around the trans vs women's rights debate. So yes we'd ask you to post accordingly.

I can't stand the parking threads in AIBU.

I just scroll past.

In particular, the trans widows threads deserve to remain where they are as it's not philosophical discussion. It's real lives and real women being abused.

You are never going to win over and appease the people who have already decided they hate Mumsnet.

I agree. And the section will be a magnet for the usual idiots who come to cause trouble. This is a terrible idea.

FWR sounds like a decent title that should be retained - and I agree with removing the unused other sections (like books/organisation).

I'm unclear if you're proposing a separate: Gender Rights forum? Would this incorporate an area for parents to discuss their experience of such issues?

Notionally, where would the transwidows threads belong?

I feel like the saying 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' applies here. Remember several years back when it was discovered that FWR traffic had gone through the roof? There's a reason for that and it's because women wanted a space to discuss the assault on women's rights.

That hasn't changed. I don't want to be put in a debate topic separate from feminism chat where we have to endlessly go around in circles about clownfish and suchlike.

I realise some posters complain occasionally about the lack of topics they want to talk about but they are free to make them yet rarely do.

You are never going to win over and appease the people who have already decided they hate Mumsnet.

[quote Helleofabore]@JustineMumsnet

As others have stated, this is indeed separating feminism from the biggest fight for women's rights so far this century.

Does this mean that any thread started in the general feminism chat that your team feel should not be there will be booted into the new section? As has recently happened with one of the AIBU topics?[/quote]
I agree

Well I agree with all of you, this is not a good way to go

I'm sorry, but this response makes no sense.

Maybe you need a Feminism for Women's Rights board, and a board called

"Women Look After Everyone Else's Rights Before Their Own #bekind."