Any chance of a review of the FWR moderation rules in light of Maya Forstater's success in court please?

I think the insurmountable issue is not the title or arrangement of the boards.

It’s our opinions that are troublesome.

I’ve seen the special rules for FWR follow FWR regulars to other parts of the site. And conversely, I’ve seen newbies to FWR inadvertently step on language land mines they had no idea existed, and run off with their tails between their legs, terrified to post again, because there has been a presumption of bad faith on their part.

It’s far from a new idea that many many people just find this site troublesome/laughable/a dangerous hotbed of radical ideas, simply because it’s women together talking and raising consciousness.

That won’t change. There’s nothing that anyone from HQ can say or do to change that perception, because the people holding it don’t want to change it.

So knowing this, could we perhaps drop the board segregation idea and get back to discussing the potential update to the rules, given that the troublesome opinions that gender critical feminists tend to have are in fact definitely both worthy of holding, and fit to be expressed in public?

[quote shesellsseacats]@JustineMumsnet I have a better idea.

Sex self ID / sex and gender and related questions are THE main topic of feminism at the moment. This shouldn't be hidden away.

But fair enough if people want a section that doesn't have this topic in it.

So, MN could keep the main topic as feminism (all feminist related topics welcome) and then a sub-topic that's for those who don't want to discuss sex and gender.[/quote]
I thought this was what was basically being suggested - just in reverse? Or is the reverse the issue?

You know what, I have typed and deleted about six posts, because, for once, I don't know how to be effective in what I say.

So I'm just going to say what is uppermost in my mind.

justine, I can't remember the exact wording, but you publicly said something along the lines of being worried about the thought police shutting down free speech, and this site being targeted by transactivists labelling the gender critical point of view as transphobic.

There was an element of over my dead body about it. It was rousing, leadership stuff.

And now you're suggesting that the very same women you were defending, should be siloed off down in the basement, next to the boiler.

I honestly don't get it.

If this is going to turn into one of those "bring back so and so" posts I'll chip in with I wouldn't want to be brought back

I don't think this post is particularly In The Spirit if R0 can't defend herself. I suggest you should ask MN to delete it.

Why is this being done again?

The first time around, a bunch of posters complained that they didn’t like what feminists were posting about.

MN created a bunch of extra boards and told the original feminists that if they wanted to talk about radical feminist ideas they had to go and do it on the ‘feminist theory’ board.

The complaining posters never actually used the chat board they demanded the feminists be chucked off of, so all the feminists gravitated back to the chat board.

This is the same thing happening all over again. If there are people who don’t like the feminist board and want to do some other kind of feminism, create them a new board.

You could call it ‘board for complaining about feminists doing feminism wrong.’

I’d like R0wantrees back!

[quote shesellsseacats]@JustineMumsnet I have a better idea.

Sex self ID / sex and gender and related questions are THE main topic of feminism at the moment. This shouldn't be hidden away.

But fair enough if people want a section that doesn't have this topic in it.

So, MN could keep the main topic as feminism (all feminist related topics welcome) and then a sub-topic that's for those who don't want to discuss sex and gender.[/quote]
No, this doesn't work.

RTFT.

[quote shesellsseacats]@JustineMumsnet I have a better idea.

Sex self ID / sex and gender and related questions are THE main topic of feminism at the moment. This shouldn't be hidden away.

But fair enough if people want a section that doesn't have this topic in it.

So, MN could keep the main topic as feminism (all feminist related topics welcome) and then a sub-topic that's for those who don't want to discuss sex and gender.[/quote]
Like there's a no corona zone ... a No Sex or Gender Please Zone.

[quote shesellsseacats]@JustineMumsnet I have a better idea.

Sex self ID / sex and gender and related questions are THE main topic of feminism at the moment. This shouldn't be hidden away.

But fair enough if people want a section that doesn't have this topic in it.

So, MN could keep the main topic as feminism (all feminist related topics welcome) and then a sub-topic that's for those who don't want to discuss sex and gender.[/quote]
Sounds good

[quote shesellsseacats]@JustineMumsnet I have a better idea.

Sex self ID / sex and gender and related questions are THE main topic of feminism at the moment. This shouldn't be hidden away.

But fair enough if people want a section that doesn't have this topic in it.

So, MN could keep the main topic as feminism (all feminist related topics welcome) and then a sub-topic that's for those who don't want to discuss sex and gender.[/quote]
I think this is a much better idea.

Sex self ID / sex and gender and related questions are THE main topic of feminism at the moment. This shouldn't be hidden away.

But fair enough if people want a section that doesn't have this topic in it.

So, MN could keep the main topic as feminism (all feminist related topics welcome) and then a sub-topic that's for those who don't want to discuss sex and gender.

YY that's a far better idea. No need to move threads about or police where people put things.

[quote shesellsseacats]@JustineMumsnet I have a better idea.

Sex self ID / sex and gender and related questions are THE main topic of feminism at the moment. This shouldn't be hidden away.

But fair enough if people want a section that doesn't have this topic in it.

So, MN could keep the main topic as feminism (all feminist related topics welcome) and then a sub-topic that's for those who don't want to discuss sex and gender.[/quote]
This is a compromise that gives those who want a space free of this discussion what they want, without pissing off a huge number of your members, silencing women, having the headache of moderating this etc etc.

@JustineMumsnet I have a better idea.

Sex self ID / sex and gender and related questions are THE main topic of feminism at the moment. This shouldn't be hidden away.

But fair enough if people want a section that doesn't have this topic in it.

So, MN could keep the main topic as feminism (all feminist related topics welcome) and then a sub-topic that's for those who don't want to discuss sex and gender.

Sorry, didn't @JustineMumsnet properly

Bloody hell MN - are you serious, you're going to use the Maya judgement to hide the GC posters away in a corner!!! Incredibly poor form.

And I am very disappointed that Rowantrees seems to be in some sort of purgatory - she's an incredibly balanced and knowledgeable poster and is not incivil or offensive in the least. Targeted harassment of users here by misogynistic monitors who are often here to source 'transphobic' screenshots seems to be tactically allowed for some reason.

I've just caught up on this thread. I'm very much hoping this I know some of you will be disappointed that we insist on respectful language and inclusivity here when elsewhere many gender critical feminists have had to put up with extraordinary amounts of incivility and indeed downright harassment was just poorly worded @justinemumsnet because otherwise that is incredibly insulting to your site's users. We try incredibly hard to have civil debate and to stay within the nebulous and seemly ever-changing FWR specific Talk Guidelines but as many posters have said, it's incredibly difficult given the many innocuous words/phrases which are not allowed but aren't specified as not being allowed. In terms of inclusivity, I've seen a transwoman's post being deleted when she shared her own personal opinions and experience, none of which were offensive or contentious. How is that inclusive?

Gutted & angry that R0 has been vamoushed. She is so bloody knowledgeable.

Also don’t agree with the proposal to excise GC discussion from feminism.

But, back to the OP Please could the question be answered? In light of yesterday’s ruling, please could the rules that prevent GC posters adding polite but truthful opinions be reviewed?

Ok let me get this right?

Basically women are being told to move over and welcome our erasure. And now that our views have been given legal validity @JustineMumsnet has just informed us that we should move over, which will ultimately dilute and erase of our voices. On a site predominantly for women.

Righto. I thought Justine asked for money in the form of subs to keep this site going because it had lost funding. And though not specifically stated at the time, we know the site lost funding from certain businesses due to the GC position of a lot of users. Then the pandemic polarised the situation. So not wanting it to go under for me and for others, I willingly paid.

Quite why I paid my subs again recently, I’m not sure. This seems one step closer to removing any threads, which don’t toe the liberal line. Because as others have put so eloquently, it is impossible to disentangle one from the other.

And still doesn’t answer the question of reviewing moderation.

I’m so sad to learn Rowantrees. Another reasoned and knowledgeable woman erased from the site.

People don't really think trans issues swamp FWR. They think that GC views are transphobic and should not be allowed at all.

This.