Premium 'Recently Registered' email

@LilyMumsnet

@soniamumsnet

@MichaelMumsnet

@EstherMumsnet

@justinemumsnet

Is there a good reason why you are cherry picking which users you think are worth responding to? I have also been raising this via the report system for days. The ignorance is astounding.

@JustineMumsnet Your users, once again, have concerns over the personal information you hold on them. This is ridiculous.

I think what they are saying is that there are two databases and it’s deleted from one and not the other?

That isn't consistent with accidentally including all email addresses kept for any reason in the mail shot.

Upthread Esther said: This email was meant to go out to people who had registered in the last few days but due to a human error it went out to a much larger segment of email addresses on our database

Storing any necessary audit records seperately, with the relevant justification information, would prevent "whoopsies" going to banned users, ex users and random mail addresses.

I said on another thread that MN Tech seems to be someone's teenage son working out of his bedroom

How is it being transparent (which is a GDPR obligstion) when you say data is deleted but it’s not?

When a user changes email address, it's deleted from their user account. We do need to keep track of changes made to user accounts to prevent abuse, and the details of any email changes are stored in our database in case someone tries to move someone else's account to a different email address and we then need to investigate.

I'm sorry I don't understand this answer it seems contradictory.

If I have changed my email address can you still link the old one to me, or not?

We do need to keep track of changes made to user accounts to prevent abuse, and the details of any email changes are stored in our database in case someone tries to move someone else's account to a different email address and we then need to investigate

Sorry posted too soon. I'm also bemused that at the one hand you keep all this audit data but at the same time you need us to tell you which email addresses you hold for us.

Which is it?

I think I've suggested previously that a decent test architect might save you some of these 'embarrassments' but seems you need a data architect and an ops architect as well to sort out your data management and your apparent failure to log activities using personal data and mail shots.

When a user changes email address, it's deleted from their user account. We do need to keep track of changes made to user accounts to prevent abuse, and the details of any email changes are stored in our database in case someone tries to move someone else's account to a different email address and we then need to investigate

So when @Justinemumsnet said nearly two years ago that when someone deregisters all their personal information is removed straight away this wasn't correct?

Audit records, especially where holding personal data which you should not be using other than purely for audit, should not be part of a mailing system nor accessible to it. That is absolutely core data design. Additionally if you are going to cull email addresses not explicitly provided to be the registered email address then you need to be very upfront and clear about this, especially when you use them to send spam to members.

So when you said you deleted email addresses, that’s not what you meant?

How would mumsnet have emails attached to a user if those emails were never used to register? Or if someone is unregistered o mumsnet keep a record of email addresses? If so, where do they get them from?

This is back to front. How do we know to request removal without knowing what is held? When I look at my account settings only one email address is shown as registered. There is no indication on that page that previous addresses and even addresses which have never been registered to MN are kept and used.

Yes this is my issue @soniamumsnet

What is the rationale for keeping redundant emails on file?

And emails which have never been registered with MN. It feels like a random trawl for addresses has been used to send the advertising.

We are happy to delete email addresses that have previously been changed retrospectively, but we do need the owners of the email addresses to mail in the details of the old account so we know who to remove.

This is back to front. How do we know to request removal without knowing what is held? When I look at my account settings only one email address is shown as registered. There is no indication on that page that previous addresses and even addresses which have never been registered to MN are kept and used.

Why not make all held addresses for the account visible on the account settings? Then have a transparent process for change which states clearly that old addresses will be deleted after X days or which includes a preference option to have old addresses retained or not? These issues with data have been going on for years now and every time its "oh whoopsie silly old us, now go back to your naice gin".

Or do you seriously want every member of MN to raise a SAR to get this basic piece of information?

@soniamumsnet

Can someone, preferably @JustineMumsnet respond to my questions, please?

We are happy to delete email addresses that have previously been changed retrospectively, but we do need the owners of the email addresses to mail in the details of the old account so we know who to remove.

@soniamumsnet What is the rationale for keeping redundant emails on file? Many women changed their emails in response to the previous data breaches and as I have demonstrated, members were given to believe they already had assurances this data (often identifying) would not be held on your database.

Why are you holding this data, especially when Mumsnet claims to have a duty of care and be aware of women's need for privacy?

Thank you @soniamumsnet.

The page confused me because I thought it was saying I had filled in a form and I didn’t.

@Nnkk

Think they are ignoring this in the hope it'll go away like all the other times they have failed to secure user data 🤨

Hopeful bump @MichaelMumsnet

@MichaelMumsnet I’m asking again. can you please tell me what form I submitted and what details were on that form.
All I got was a click through to a website that said thank you for submitting the form.

I didn’t submit a form. I clicked a link not to receive marketing emails.

Also. Please can you tell me why I need to click twice once for marketing and once for premium? Premium pushing is surely just marketing and I don’t understand why I need to do it twice.

To other Mumsnet users, I'm not being difficult or refusing to let them to look into it, it's just gone on for so long. So many data breaches etc and I'm just done with this on all our behalf. Id much rather the ICO look into it than piss around with MNHQ and be told I'm lying/over reacting and whatever else it will be this time. After Jeffrey/their employee breach, I just don't trust them.

@MichaelMumsnet I have submitted a complaint with ICO, they will be looking into it. I've taken advice from my employers data controller, I'm sure you have someone in that role? They have advised not to give anymore personal data to you (even though you already seem to have this), as it clearly isn't safe and to keep the anon account to track this complaint. I'm sure my official GDPR complaint will look into it all for you. Hopefully the user who has repeatedly asked you to remove her email, but you haven't, has done the same.

Maybe follow up on all the others and their questions, as this seems to be a large issue. No response to @Nnkk on their many attempts.

This really is a mess, once again.

Could someone from MNHQ please address the questions and concerns here? If not, I'll be joining the list of users putting in an official complaint with the ICO.

@MichaelMumsnet can I ask again what “form” I submitted and what exactly was on that “form”?