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Original poster

talk guidelines for "threads like this "

58 replies

peridito · 27/11/2019 08:11

Hi ,deleted thread on 26/11/ by Neonomore .

What are the guidelines that this transgressed ?

Was there an assumption that the OP was discussing suicide . What was the thread "like" in your view ?

I've looked at talk guidelines but it hasn't helped .

TIA
I thought it was someone having a MH crisis .

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Original poster
peridito · 28/11/2019 08:00

I think it was right to delete the post .What was wrong was the wording of the final post from MN to the OP .

The OP was v vunerable and including the bald statement "we don't allow threads like this "is negative /unsupportive/implies that the OP has done something wrong .Signposting the Samaratins was not appropriate unless I have missunderstood their role and they are able to provide the urgent medical attention that the OP needed at that moment .

To give no indication to the other posters that MN would /would try to stay in contact with the poster is v odd and bound to lead to threads like this .And to discourage reporting of worrying posts .

@MichaelMumsnet please comment on this post . It needs to be made clear how posters in danger are dealt with .The current situation gives the impression that you just pull the rug out from their feet with what reads as a curt admonishment.

I really think that this will result in posters actively avoiding reporting worrying threads .

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BlueBirdGreenFence · 27/11/2019 22:43

But when you're feeling really vulnerable who do you tend to believe more? The negative or the positive person?

Moderation isn't appropriate. Someone has to see it before they can report it to mods for it to be deleted. What if the first person to see it is the vulnerable person? By then the damage is done. Reported posts don't always get looked at immediately either.

Somethingsometime · 27/11/2019 22:20

Threads like the one being discussed here are a positive and appropriate source of support.

The thread was positive yes but I don’t think anyone posting would say it was an appropriate source of support- that’s why the op was being strongly urged to get urgent help from mental health professionals but at least it was some support while she was waiting for a callback.

Alrighteo · 27/11/2019 22:03

Bluebird - that's where moderation comes in. Delete the shit. Don't delete the OP when she was finally coming around to accepting that she needed help. She did nothing wrong and all I can say is that the Samaritans are a listening service. They rarely actually speak to you.

BlueBirdGreenFence · 27/11/2019 21:29

My reading of the thread was that helpful and worried posters felt that:

A) The post shouldn't have been deleted

And

B) Threads like the one being discussed here are a positive and appropriate source of support.

I disagree with both those points because of the risks of not so well meaning or informed posters causing more distress or providing dangerous information.

Original poster
peridito · 27/11/2019 21:22

Bluebird what opinions are you disagreeing with ?

I'm just trying to understand MN's perception of the thread and what their protocol is in circumstances like this .

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Original poster
peridito · 27/11/2019 21:14

I think/hope that when MN deleted the thread they also contacted Neo privately .

But of course the rest of us don't know this and just see that bald public statement at the end of the thread .

But if MN were to indicate on their talk guidelines that they try to do this it would be nice .It would even be a kindness were they to add a sentence or two to their "We've deleted this .." to explain that they were trying to communicate with OP but won't be able to give updates etc.

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BlueBirdGreenFence · 27/11/2019 21:13

I strongly disagree with most of the opinions on this thread. Whilst AIBU is the worst for it, there are often really insensitive and unhelpful comments made across all the boards and potentially any thread.

Some absolute arsehole could easily come along and kick a very vulnerable person down further or even encourage them in dangerous actions at any time of the day when moderators aren't instantly available. There's a real potential there for exploitation or harm. It's maybe a small risk as thankfully most people aren't that evil but the stakes are far too high to take the chance.

Somethingsometime · 27/11/2019 20:56

All of which we did peridito thanks for that, very interesting.

It felt like there was real progress being made on the thread with neonomore gradually accepting she needed more help. I’m just worried by pulling the thread she will have lost that although I am hopeful she’ll be in the right place now 🤞

Original poster
peridito · 27/11/2019 20:45

The guidelines above suggest that someone at risk should be told to seek professional advice by ringing 111 ,calling GP for emergency out of hours appointment ,calling 999 or going to A&E .

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Original poster
peridito · 27/11/2019 20:37

Mmmm ,well ,I've just read this guide from the National Suicide Prevention Alliance
www.nspa.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/NSPA-Guidelines-Responding-to-Suicidal-Content-Online.pdf
which gives advice on deleting posts and what to do in an emergency ( which I imagine MN recognised this was ) . It does stress that deleting may remove a valuable response .

The doc mentions several times the importance of moderators to let the community know what's going on without breaking confidentiality .
Personally I feel that MN should add something to the Talk guidelines to explain that if they delete a post in these circumstances ( urgent concerns for posters safety etc ) that they give the OP clear reasons in an empathetic way and try to communicate with the person "behind the scene" ..

talk guidelines for "threads like this "
talk guidelines for "threads like this "
talk guidelines for "threads like this "
OP posts:
MidnightMystery · 27/11/2019 20:19

I'm glad I've seen this post I've been thinking about her a lot! I hope she's ok Thanks

iklboo · 27/11/2019 20:10

I was (am) really worried about that poster. I really hope she's alright and got the help and support she needs.

Alrighteo · 27/11/2019 19:49

HQ have posted about this before where posters were annoyed that HQ deleted a thread.

Thing is, we don't know how this turns out.
Might be that the OP is engaging with HQ, might be (most likely), that HQ emailed her a message which she hasn't picked up...... and told her to call the bloomin Samaritans!

Alrighteo · 27/11/2019 19:46

Their advice is to refer posters to them and to delete posts.

Original poster
peridito · 27/11/2019 19:43

Alrighteo do we know what the Samaratin's advice is ?Or what MN's stance - other than Safeguarding and need to delete - is ?

I'm guessing MN will regard my question as answered and we'll hear no more .

THough I'm really not clear about the ref to safeguarding .And it would be lovely to have my post at 15.48 acknowledged or taken onboard even.

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Alrighteo · 27/11/2019 19:13

Given the @'s to the OP and her lack of response, I'm HOPING, in my heart of hearts, that the OP got to A&E last night.

I strongly disagree with the Samaritans advice and MNHQ stance on this poster.
If ever a poster needed some help, it was this poster.

Can I just say that the Samaritans is a listening service, not a talking service. Frequently, you ring up and they don't say anything at all in response to whatever you say!

Whoever gave MNHQ the advice that they are the people to listen to - how about you actually pay some of your £££s to engage a psychiatrist and for them to advise on what posters may or my not do.

Not a voluntary organisation.

Original poster
peridito · 27/11/2019 17:32

Thanks Tabby and Something .I know who you mean Tabby .I think it was someone else , a longer name .

I remember looking for Adriane ( something like that ) but she'd left the thread earlier .I think .I have such a bad memory for this sort of thing .

I hope Neo is doing ok ,how dreadful it must be for people going through such stuff .

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TabbyStar · 27/11/2019 16:31

Was it Ariadne or a name like that? She had a good grip on the drug situation.

Somethingsometime · 27/11/2019 16:24

No peridito it wasn’t me.

I know it’s “just” an annonymous Internet forum but her distress was so real, it’s hard to switch off from that. I’d really like to know she is receiving care now.

TabbyStar · 27/11/2019 16:22

I think some of us had started to be worried that she'd accidentally taken too much of something (I'm guessing from what other people had said and my own thoughts), she was quite coherent to begin with but got less so. It was incredibly abrupt when it went, which was quite upsetting. It would have been helpful to know if MN have a process to contact OPs in this situation as it was quite distressing after we'd engaged with her for a while. I can understand why MN would pull threads, but a clearer message that the OP will be contacted would have made me feel better.

Original poster
peridito · 27/11/2019 16:13

@Somethingsometime do you remember the name of the poster who picked up on the OP's post about taking all her diazepam ? Was it you ?

I would like her to know that MN are in touch with Neonomore . I bet a number of us had a bad night thinking about her !

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Somethingsometime · 27/11/2019 16:05

I agree peridito I think we all would have preferred her to get professional support and I can see how posters trying to help could confuse the issue.

I just hope she’s ok and has some professional support in place now. It was a difficult thread to be part of and the deletion message didn’t really help- a clearer explanation would have been better.

Original poster
peridito · 27/11/2019 15:48

@MichaelMumsnet if it was felt that the OP was too vunerable to be on a public forum could MN not have said so and ,most importantly ,stated that MN was in touch with her off the board ?

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Original poster
peridito · 27/11/2019 15:40

I wonder if it's something to do with a v vunerable person leaning too heavily on support from strangers/non professionals and this ( nonwithstanding the many well intentioned pleas that the OP go to A&E ) somehow inhibiting the action to get outside help ?

If that makes sense .

I guess the thread could confuse the issue - some saying 999 ,some 111 ,some A&E .Some still suggesting stuff about the black eye . Who knows how someone in extremis would find all that .

But ,I do think MN should offer more of an explanation when deleting .It would inform how posters respond in future .

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