The deletion of the Upfield thread on AIBU

And I can’t stop myself making a point of information following an earlier post. A “radical feminist” is not an extreme or very feministy feminist. All feminists have the same goal- that of full social, political, personal and financial equality. They just have different views about rhe best way that can be achieved. Radical and Liberal are the two main paths. It’s a shame that the word radical has shifted its meaning in recent times.

Well yes, it’s a valid question. It’s easy to scroll past any threads that are not of interest, but to hide the whole section is a bit odd when you consider what is happening around us. (Separate issue as to whether or not the AIBU thread should have been deleted).

@BertrandRussell I’ll take that as a compliment

Curious...why don’t people like the FWR section?

You really need to ask?

Are you fairly new to MN LangCleg?

This also made me smile

What a bloody odd decision when the site is littered with multiple Megan markle and Brexit threads. By this logic there only ever need be one! Bit LOTR innit...

WeBuiltThisCity (awesome username btw!) I would love to think it's that but sadly I doubt it.

\ makes morning-after-the-wine-eyes //

I don’t find FWR full of radical feminists at all. Yes there will of course be some but the vast majority are just, well, feminists Who are concerned about the erosion of women’s rights...

Bit odd to hide it IMO.

I hide the topic as it’s more radical than normal. It’s their way only

Hello @mnhq, I'm another person who thinks this one was silly.

I know it's the weekend mods on at the moment, and they tend to be harsher on FWR, so maybe that's part of it. They tend to delete more and ban more it seems.

FWR is the most important part of the site. I cannot understand women who hide it...posters there are fighting for women's rights and safety and very lives actually, yet some people prefer to bury their heads. Even insult the very women fighting for THEM! The mind boggles. But anyway, crazy decision. Makes no sense.

Appalling decision. Please reinstate.

“Also I’m pretty clever (!) but some of the language is so academic it’s almost difficult to understand.“

@ShirleyPhallus- I’ve seen your posts and I find it really hard to believe that you could possibly find FWR either intimidating or hard to understand!

Yes, this decision is definitely consistent with MN enabling the discussion of important issues 🤔.

I too find the FWR board incredibly interesting but also intimidating tbh

When I have stepped on to there it’s almost like you have to be a certain level of feminist to even post otherwise they can be really quite snarky. Also I’m pretty clever (!) but some of the language is so academic it’s almost difficult to understand.

And I do find it’s absolutely full of trans threads, and some definitely cross a line

The hateful, nasty, vitriolic nest of vipers rhetoric has always been an anti feminist trope. It’s depressing that the same words are still being used since the days of rhe suffragettes.

I need to put in here, my personal issue, is that a very high number of children with autism are gender non conforming or begin to think that they are trans as they know they don't fit in and many are often very drawn to the Internet. There is now an increasing number of detransitioning people, often young women and autistic.

There are also increasing number of suicides of young transitioned teens and young adults who's MH issues were not properly dealt with once they went down the gender id services pathways (see work by Michelle Moore.)

If debate around the issues raises awareness and saves even one of these children, that's a good thing.

I'm always mystified - and slightly disappointed - when people talk about all the 'bile' and 'vitriol' on FWR. It seems to me that these posters haven't actually read the threads there and are simply jumping on a bandwagon of anti-FWR rhetoric, it's easier to believe the feminists are nasty than that they might have some points. My experience of the board is that women are articulate, thoughtful and compassionate. They often make sharp observations, sometimes with humour, but I don't see bile.

It reminds me too much of the 'these feminists are just hysterical little women who should be kept in their place' thinking that belongs in the 1950s.

MN should review this ridiculous decision.

How telling that people aren't taking issue with what we are saying, just the way we are saying it.

Thanks @NeurotrashWarrior

Maybe they’re planning to pay dividends in woke points?

Other thread:

Upfield (manufacturers of Flora marg, and Proactiv) don't want Mumsnet to buy their products any more www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3714947-Upfield-manufacturers-of-Flora-marg-and-Proactiv-dont-want-Mumsnet-to-buy-their-products-any-more

pinkyy Posters in fwr are often dealing with a lot of raw emotion and strength of feeling. It's also a fact that women are taught to be polite and kind but sometimes at the expense of being able to assert arguments effectively. The whole nasty woman thing. Some posts do come across curtly and there's enough goady fuckers to also make posters highly suspicious. And so an tendency to be sarky.

I used to find it too high brow and grumpy, now I only see the arguments and debate.

It's a trans issue in as much as women in fwr query medicalisation of young children exploring their identity, query highly sexist stereotypes, query where boundaries lie in terms of women being able to define what a woman is and therefore when and where they can be in single sex spaces and that lesbians have a right to say they are only attracted to adult human females.

A lot of people don't like women thinking or saying this. And so asked a margarine company to stop supporting them

i realise that many people avoid FWR because there are a lot of threads on trans issues. While I agree that it is a very important topic, it is not the only thing feminists should be talking about. And the more people avoid, the less discussion there’ll be about all the other issues women face in the world today. So if you don’t like the dominance of trans issues, go and start threads about other things!

It’s not just having a strong viewpoint though is it. It’s like any radical supporter of a cause. They become so consumed by putting their point across that it generally only serves to alienate rather than encourage those who would otherwise be supporters.

Same with religion/environmentalism just to give two examples.

People might believe in a God but they wouldn’t want to be associated with the types who accost people in the streets demanding they be converted to their religion of choice.

Most people believe in doing something re climate change but extinction rebellion hasn’t warmed people to the cause because they’ve gone beyond delivering a message into the realms of hate-filled demands that people give up everything for the cause.

Etc etc.

Radical feminism is right up there with them, which is why most feminists wouldn’t want to be associated with them.

I find FWR depressing and fascinating in equal measure, I would say I have learned more from that board in the last few years than the rest of MN put together, there are some incredibly wise and knowledgeable women posting there. Unfortunately we don't use Flora so I can't change my buying habits to boycott them, but if I ever feel tempted I will resist.

This seems like a very ofd deletion to me. I can understand deletion where someone has posted the same question in multiple topics and the responses are split or muddled but I can't understand this one at all.