The deletion of the Upfield thread on AIBU

Yes, convenient drip feed after your perfectly comprehensible post a few minutes ago which referenced the general point of many other posts.

The picture are 08:26 was also accompanied by a link to the thread which, funnily enough mentioned the trans debate almost straight away.

You can't discuss feminism while ignoring the fact that the definition of 'woman' has been bastardised so apologies for the inconvenience of women having a reasoned discussion about their own rights.

That's ok to have lost interest, those of us who think it's important are still fighting on your behalf. No need to get your hands dirty

Also it's extraordinary the number of times people say I didn't follow it, read it or talk about any of the points, yet still seem to think their opinion of it holds any weight!

I've just had a look but can't find the thread, I didn't post on it or follow it. It was in the last week or so and many of the regulars posted on it.

It was a little short thread and most women on it were very kind to the OP.

Only someone paying very close attention to FWR would even have noticed it, so your harping on about it is rather revealing. Colour me shocked.

The original issue is about a woman who works for mermaids, or worked for mermaids, who is not trans and has taken a transwoman to court for transphobia (thrown out within minutes), tweeting a reply to her by Flora Margerine, saying they have investigated mumsnet, and as a result are no longer working with them, due to inclusion policies.

Justine, or HQ, have tweeted the following.

"Mumsnet will always stand in solidarity with minority communities. We don’t tolerate transphobic comments and will delete any when they are flagged to us. But we do also believe strongly in free speech. 1/3

The discussion of gender self-id and what that might mean for very hard-won women’s rights, as well as the rapidly growing number of children exploring gender identity issues, is contentious. 2/3

We know some people would like us to simply censor this entire debate but a similar number think we censor too much. We’re committed to allowing respectful discussion of an issue that is of particular interest to parents. 3/3".

All the original thread, the subsequent threads and any information is on FWR. If you hide it, you won't know about it. But please don't complain if that is the case.

A second thread criticising flora and supporting mumsnet was started in AIBU and has been deleted on the basis that there was already one thread about it in FWR.

To summarise

Flora pay MN handsomely for branding, do two product tests with MN and a shed load of advertising in September.

Then contract comes naturally to an end.

Flora then jumps on a woke bandwagon after being targeted by one prominent TRA to get free twitter points. Pretends end of contract is related to values and tweets (see picture above).

Women are miffed and post on here in AIBU. Thread is deleted.

Others post on here to tell those miffed women they are cross with them about ‘too many trans threads’.

@Whatwouldbigfatfannydo I am VI as are others on MN. Therefore a picture is useless to me and many others.

The original question of this thread was to ask why the discussion on the main boards was removed. MN should definitely answer that, but the fact that this topic has been highjacked by members of a group whose discussions are predominantly hidden by other members to talk about why people should follow them/why trans is a bad thing/why everyone else is uneducated yada yada yada has actually taken away the entire point of the discussion itself.

So frankly, thanks to FWR, I have lost interest and could care less about Flora and whatever it is they’ve supposedly said/done.

alleged flora thing

The evidence is all still easy available on Twitter. And it is being widely discussed, both on there and on the FWRs - linked up thread.

@NoCauseRebel

A picture of the offending tweet was posted a couple of pages back.

Sorry if you were too distracted bashing other women to notice. Either that or a picture isn't plain enough for you.

Jesus Christ. So now we’re transcending into another fucking trans thread.

It won’t be hard to see why this thread too will be deleted and it won’t be because it’s a TAAT.

since no-one actually wants to discuss the alleged flora thing there’s no reason to think that it’s important. It’s not about trans after all.....

Toddler grabbed my phone

Last paragraph should say:

FWR and politics are both full-on, but FWR has more laughs in between deep discussion - like the rest of MN. Politics stays more focussed, and more rows break out. But personally all the most unpleasant things I’ve read on MN have been on AIBU and there have been times I’ve had that hidden.

It would be nice to hear from HQ about this deletion.

Maybe you need to post the deleted comment which then led the poster to post that long winded comment, so that people can decide if the original comment was offensive or not?

It's not necessary for me to do that, Tequila. Even if I could. And guess what, it would get deleted. And I would have a strike against me!

You can see the words which would have been substituted.

I frankly couldn't care less if people, who constantly and permanently benefit from feminism, don't want to read about it. I do care when they misrepresent what feminists are saying.

@TequilaPilates

That is why so many of us rely on science and biology when referring to sex. It cannot be conflated with other terms.

Woman = adult human female (XX chromosomes I.e female right down to the cellular level and impossible to change)

Man = adult human male (XY chromosomes I.e male right down to the cellular level and equally impossible to change)

No difference of opinion there sorry!

@TequilaPilates
Your comment at 9.47 is quite possibly one of the most ridiculous comments I've seen.
If Datun posts the comment again, it will be deleted, why do you want others to decide if it's offensive?
The moderators of FWR decided it was. So it's been deleted

Every MNer should be free to hide any topic they like. Personally my favourite two topics are Politics and Feminism, which I believe are two of the most hidden but also two of the major entry points into MN, after AIBU and Active. (??)

FWR and Politics are both full-on, with highPersonally all the most unpleasant things I’ve read on man have been in AIBU

So instead of discussing the actual issue here which caused the thread deletion, members of the FWR boards are here bitching about why people aren’t following the FWR boards and therefore gaining awareness of the deleted thread which could easily have been discussed on the main boards?

Newsflash, people are hiding FWR in their droves. You may not like it but they are. And in the meantime when there is apparently a mainstream issue which could have been brought to the attention of the MN users on the main boards, you know, the ones who do hide FWR, the FWR radicals highjack a thread wanting to discuss why this can’t be discussed on the main boards to challenge people over their reasons and rights to ignore the FWR topics.

And so the FWR members have very successfully blocked the discussion of this issue on the main boards well done. Are you proud of what you’ve achieved?

We’re five pages in now and still no-one has actually said in plain English what this discussion was about.

What does FWR stand for?

Feminism and Women’s Rights. Which was the old name for the Feminism section, and the acronym stuck.

Datun

Maybe you need to post the deleted comment which then led the poster to post that long winded comment, so that people can decide if the original comment was offensive or not?

Bertrand

Thread link www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3711740-Once-again-Im-having-a-bad-day

I’m not wanting to try and be the the thread police here- but might it be possible to have this discussion without talking about trans issues? It seems to me that there are many other things feminists should be talking/campaigning about that are being completely swamped by the trans debate. I agree that it’s incredibly important, but it’s not the only important thing.....

But this thread is about the Flora issue, which is as a result of the trans issue, no?

I find trans phobic comments offensive and agree with MN when they delete them. I don't consider that to be a "difference of opinion" in the same way that I don't think racism is just a "difference of opinion

Do you believe humans can change sex?

Sorry- I meant put a couple of the names into Advanced Search and see what comes up.

I agree but there's also the issue where the very definition of 'woman' is changing rapidly.
It's becoming extremely difficult to discuss feminism in the wider context with this ambiguity hanging over us all.
How do we work together for women's rights when people don't even agree what a woman is?

I don't understand why HQ deleted that thread, either. Since it was pro them and anti people who want to shut them down.

In terms of FWR - behind one other board, AIBU, I think, it's the most popular access point for the entire site.

In terms of it being rude, or viperish, I wandered onto AIBU the other day to find someone had called someone else a pathetic bitch, over something so unutterably innocuous, it was difficult to believe.

But what is really getting my goat is the assertion, or more likely assumption, that deletions on FWR directly correlate to transphobia.

For example,

So many posts get deleted and many posters have been banned. How does this happen if the comments weren't deemed offensive?

And

We yes. But many of us agree with those rules and think that posting against them, is offensive, vitriolic or abusive.

When this is the reality:

Oh drat, I accidentally said something factual and true without using approved language. Sorry MNHQ.

I'll rephrase.
A large person of the sex that produces small gametes known as sperm barges past two much smaller people of the opposite sex (the sex that produces eggs) grabbing the microphone from the older egg producer sex person and literally shoving the small child (who is of the sex that can be criminalised for attempting reproductive autonomy) in an attempt to dominate the entire proceedings.

There.
No talk guidelines broken, no accidentally calling sperm-producers by male pronouns, and in accordance with MNHQ rules I've only mentioned biological sex where it is permissible and relevant without resorting to language like man, woman, girl.

Please don't delete this version MNHQ.

Reduced to entire paragraphs that make no sense unless you're willing to forensically interpret them word by word.

But yeah, that's 'vitriol'. 🙄

What does FWR stand for?

Is it worth ASing a couple of the regulars you remember and seeing if you can find it that way?

Or, you could ask them yourself 8f you want to read the thread? How do you suggest I ask them? PM them?