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Original poster

“Racism” towards the Irish on here

581 replies

Giantbanger · 30/10/2018 10:09

Can we please talk about it and can you please get your mods some training.

There was a thread that stood from yesterday. The op was goady and people were reporting the fuck out of it from yesterday.

It went this morning because the op was previously banned for being goady. No surprises there then.

But it contained a post from a member of MNHQ that really bothered me and I would like to discuss.

Add message | Report | Message poster EstherMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 29-Oct-18 19:43:38
Hello!
Thanks for all the reports on this one. We'd like to leave this up as it's a pretty interesting discussion - one for the colonial/post colonial literature experts perhaps (yes - we know there's an argument over whether Irish literature counts as such!) - so please keep to the spirit of the site when discussing this and make your points politely. Thanks

So if there’s a “racist” thread about the Irish, it is an interesting discussion and the Irish need to be polite when telling racists they are racists.

(And Yes. I know in the dictionary definition Irish isn’t a race. It’s a subset ethnicity of Caucasian but the term is used more broadly in general use than the dictionary definition.)

OP posts:
pleasegotowork · 31/10/2018 17:36

I read that thread and many others like it. I just find them so frusrating. When it's explained over and over why and how it can't work but people just refuse to even try to understand.

And the attitude that it's the irishouse who are being difficult in the negotiations is so frustrating. It's all just so sad. You think that times have moved on and that attitudes have changed (towards Ireland from England ) but all of this is showing that plus ça change .

And sadly, I feel it's going the other way too. I told the story about telling a guy years ago about Irish people supporting the opposition in England soccer games. Whilst I think this would still happen now (but not for the same reasons or the animosity that there was back then) things HAVE changed post GFA. There was a maturity in our relationship with the UK, a new neighbourliness. I think this is changing too. When tensions rise, people start digging their trenches and then no one wins.

InionEile · 31/10/2018 17:33

@Ringsender2 - thanks for saying that. Too many English people do not want to admit that they are coming from a place of privilege with respect to Ireland, possibly because they do not see race as a factor in Irish / English relations. There has been a lot of waking up with regard to the West Indies, India and so on because of heightened awareness of racial inequality but Ireland and its history still remains a blank for many English people.

I had some work to do myself when I moved to the USA as an Irish person. I used to have a kind of Irish nationalism wherein we Irish were always the downtrodden, the oppressed, on the side of the outcasts but once I moved here and saw how race relations are up close, I realized that having white skin is a form of privilege too, no matter what your personal class or background might be. Going through the world as a white person is just easier.

White is seen as 'normal'. All the writers, actors, scientists, geniuses we are told to admire have the same skin color as me and my children. That's a form of privilege and I had to inform myself and raise my awareness of things like that when I moved to the US. It's a good exercise in opening your mind and seeing the world from a different point of view.

Well done to you for opening your mind - I wish more English people would make the effort as many Irish people have to when we leave our small country (apart from SheBangsIt maybe Grin )

Original poster
giantbanger · 31/10/2018 17:33

Thanks IstandwithPosie I've just gone through and reported individual posts for creeping racism and unconscious bias and blatant racism - but it's all OK in the guise of faux innocent wide eyed-ness.

I'm really fed up that we haven't had decent engagement here from MNHQ - most of us weren't making a nationalist point (with one notable exception) we were engaging civilly and trying to make the point to HQ in a way that they would understand.

They have a statutory duty to sort this out, at the end of the day, we are protected under the Equality Act, it's not just trans issues that get protected that way. And lets not forget, it isn't that long ago that there was actual literal violence and thousands and thousands of deaths over the heads of the conflict between the Irish and the British, and I am sure and certain no one wants to go back to those days.

OP posts:
IStandWithPosie · 31/10/2018 17:25

Thanks giant, i’ll Have a look through.

Mrsr8 · 31/10/2018 17:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
giantbanger · 31/10/2018 17:17

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3401817-Irish-Border-solved-with-Canada-Plus-Plus-deal

This is the thread I reported by the way if anyone else can be arsed to trawl through individual posts and report the fuck out of them.

OP posts:
BoreOfWhabylon · 31/10/2018 17:13

I hope I always challenge racism when I see it.

And I see it here on this thread alright, SheBangsit.

Away with your sweeping racist generalisations and fevered rhetoric.

I question your motivation here.

IStandWithPosie · 31/10/2018 17:13

I’m still reporting this thread and asking for engagement. It’s really not on that they are ignoring us.

Original poster
giantbanger · 31/10/2018 17:10

I'm shocked that mumsnet haven't come back to make any further statement.

I've reported and reported, and had no response.

I reported another thread, and in the report said "the whole thread is racist" and got a reply from Michaelmumsnet that said "I can't see what breaks our guidelines in that reported post".

I SAID in the report that HQ needed to look at the whole thread.

Nothing is going to change when they don't even read the reports properly and don't come back to this thread and don't even engage properly with the points being made here.

OP posts:
IStandWithPosie · 31/10/2018 17:10

It would be a huge shame if this thread was deleted because of an unnecessary derailment. We need MNHQ to respond to our concerns. We need them to engage. They are doing their utmost to ignore us and will leap at the chance to delete this thread to avoid having to engage at all. Please don’t let that happen. This thread is for a specific purpose and that aim hasn’t been achieved yet. Let keep it on topic and pressure on HQ (by continuing to report) until we get an actual response.

Original poster
giantbanger · 31/10/2018 17:06

Shebangs you aren't really helping and your viewpoint isn't shared by that many people and although it's awesome to have The Proclamation nailed to the thread and all, this thread was really about the attitudes of the mods on here to the racism that gets dished out, the unconscious bias of people and some of the viewpoints expressed.

OP posts:
LivLemler · 31/10/2018 17:06

Calm down SheBangsit, you're not helping form the basis of a reasonable conversation. No one on this thread was alive in 1916, there's no need for such emotive language.

plaidlife · 31/10/2018 17:01

I'm not sure that you are speaking to as many English people as you think you are she but I am pretty sure that if there are any English people reading this you aren't going to be wining them over to your way of thinking, or to the wider joys of Nationalism. That said given my lack of love for it, I'm all in favor of you cracking on.

SnipSnipMrBurgess · 31/10/2018 16:52

Yeah you are really helping the cause shebangsit

I get that you love being Irish I do. But seriously, there is no need for that "You murdered my people" aggressiveness.

JungDisciple · 31/10/2018 16:51

@janejeffer, I couldn't agree more. It serves nobody.

I lived in the UK for a decade and apart from the assumption that ALL Irish people were AUTOMATICALLY working class (which it would be snobby to get to worked up about) I didn't find them anything other than welcoming. I'd hate to see the bad feeling and negative assumptions all fanned up by brexit, post brexit.

SheBangsit · 31/10/2018 16:50

I believe that English people upon hearing of their atrocities, are proud of their prowess. How can you deal with that arrogance?

SheBangsit · 31/10/2018 16:48

We didn't want to be ruled by you so martial/marshall law should be and is irrelevant. You still murdered us without trial.

SheBangsit · 31/10/2018 16:46

Legal counsel at my previous job explaining the various divisions told us that 'then there's the Irish who do things in their uniquely Irish way'. I said AHEM. She then went on to say EVERYTHING IS DONE ON A WINK AND A NOD OVER THERE. This was their legal counsel.

Mammysin · 31/10/2018 16:43

Just two points: Ireland was a Free State but is now a Republic ( and has been since 1949) . It's martial law ( Marshall law reminds me of the Marshall plan 😬)

SheBangsit · 31/10/2018 16:43

I'll bring up whatever I like!

Mayra1367 · 31/10/2018 16:42

Relic hunter
I find your comment about flattering myself very interesting. You have no idea what sort of racism I have encountered, but then if the comments are made to an Irish person, it’s not racism is it ?
🙄

SheBangsit · 31/10/2018 16:41

I was interpreting it for an English audience. They would have no idea what a Proclamation is apart from some declaration that you're going to do something. You need to interpret Irish English to English for an English audience.

JaneJeffer · 31/10/2018 16:39

The tragedies of the past have left a deep and profoundly regrettable legacy of suffering. We must never forget those who have died or been injured, and their families. But we can best honour them through a fresh start, in which we firmly dedicate ourselves to the achievement of reconciliation, tolerance, and mutual trust, and to the protection and vindication of the human rights of all. GFA
Please stop bringing up past atrocities. It won't solve anything in the present day.

Mrsr8 · 31/10/2018 16:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LadyGregorysToothbrush · 31/10/2018 16:24

Yeah you love it so much you can’t even get the name of the Proclamation right...