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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

When you get a thread deleted...

35 replies

CrochetBelle · 14/07/2018 18:31

... does it actually get deleted?

A post by one of your admin suggests it instead gets hidden from view. What would a poster have to do/say to actually have it deleted? And if only hidden, why aren't you more transparent about that?

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crunchymint · 17/07/2018 18:29

And if the thread could be linked to you. MN would delete all comments from that person on request?
My threads can be linked to me in real life. It is not anonymonised data.

CrochetBelle · 17/07/2018 16:59

I realise OP is pissed off because they had their arse handed to them on a thread

Pardon?
Not quite sure what you're referring to here. Confused

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MilkTwoSugarsThanks · 17/07/2018 16:34

I'm not sure a thread containing no identifying details would fall under the GDPR. And once you've deleted your account that thread cannot be linked to you in any way so it's just anonymised data, surely?

I realise OP is pissed off because they had their arse handed to them on a thread, but I'm not sure that's a valid reason for wiping it from existence.

CrochetBelle · 17/07/2018 16:28

Why are you picking and choosing which questions to answer? It seems you've learned from webchats with politicians Wink

What do each of the following mean, in terms of information being kept within the MN system - hidden or visible?:

1)We've deleted this thread as it breaks Talk Guidelines.
2)We've deleted this thread as the poster was concerned about identifying details.
3)We've deleted this thread as the OP is a PBP.
4)Message deleted at user's request.

In which, if any, of these situations is a post deleted?
And why do you insist on leading users to believe a post is deleted when that was never the case? Do you think that is something that should be addressed and made more transparent.

And as duckfuck asked above, what about threads in 30 days / chat / otbt - are they hidden away instead of deleted too? If just hidden, can you please direct me to the bit in the terms and conditions which makes clear that your definition of 'deleted' does not match the expectation that people would have made.

Thank you.

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Duckfuckduck · 17/07/2018 14:34

In fact the ico guidance here ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr/individual-rights/right-to-erasure/seems to suggest that deletion from social networks falls under right to be forgotten.

Duckfuckduck · 17/07/2018 14:32

And what about chat and 30 days and otbt?

AnchorDownDeepBreath · 17/07/2018 14:27

You're hugely simplifying GDPR, duck. There are lots of reasons a company can keep data once you've requested that it be deleted.

I don't disagree that MNHQ could be more transparent when they say they're "deleting" though.

Duckfuckduck · 17/07/2018 14:25

Kate. If I ask you to delete all personal data you hold on me, for example, and remove all my posts, I expect that to mean that they are deleted. Not hidden.

This is the ico definition of personal data:

The GDPR applies to ‘personal data’ meaning any information relating to an identifiable person who can be directly or indirectly identified in particular by reference to an identifier.

If I ask for a post to be deleted because I’ve been identified, then that is information relating to me as an identifiable person.

Why do you not comply with GDPR on this instance and delete it?

KateMumsnet · 17/07/2018 13:19

@crunchymint

Under GDPR people can ask for things to be deleted.

Crunchymint, you're absolutely right that users can delete their personally identifying data - they can do so by deleting their account on their 'My Account' page, and their personally identifying information will then be completely removed from our systems, as GDPR requires.

The content of posts falls into a different category though. As I said, we do remove posts/ threads to be helpful when people hadn't thought things through before posting, and we're always happy to take a look at any posts which a poster worries is identifying to other posters.

If they have broader concerns, though, and wish their details to be permanently deleted from the site, inaccessible to anyone including MNHQ, the way to do that is by deleting their account.

Duckfuckduck · 17/07/2018 12:55

I don't think it is common parlance to say deleted when you mean hidden.

What about threads that disappear - et from otbt or 30 days and chat?

crunchymint · 17/07/2018 12:10

Under GDPR people can ask for things to be deleted. That means totally deleted, not just hidden. They do not need to give a reason. It sounds as if you are not GDPR compliant.

CrochetBelle · 17/07/2018 11:30

So when you advise and assure a poster you have deleted their thread/post, it's still on your system, just hidden from public view? Is that okay under GDPR? And why have MN never been more transparent about that? Why call it 'deleting'?

And since you're here - any reason why it took so long to respond to numerous reports and emails on this issue?

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Duckfuckduck · 17/07/2018 11:11

But if I ask for a thread to be deleted because it identified me in RL it is by the fact I've been identified personal data and thus if I ask for it to be deleted it signs be deleted properly deleted as per gdpr not just hidden

KateMumsnet · 17/07/2018 11:08

Hi there Crochetbelle and apologies for the delay - it sounds as though you have a couple of different points here and I'll try to address them both.

We have the ability to hide/suspend a thread while we look behind the scenes here - that's what happened on the thread that you've screenshotted. If we decide that the thread isn't one we want to host on Mumsnet because it breaks our Talk Guidelines, we delete it.

'Deleted' refers to the fact that it no longer exists as a Mumsnet thread, to be viewed or commented on - but as a pp suggested, MNHQ can still see the posts and we use them to help us make moderation decisions at a later date. This isn't something that we've tried to be opaque about - it's pretty common parlance to use the word 'deleted' in this context.

Very rarely, we delete a thread at a Mumsnet user's request, when she believes she has outed herself. In this situation the user is worried about the content of the whole thread causing fallout for her in RL, so removing it from view solves her problem. As I said, we don't often to this, and we regularly remind users to that Mumsnet is a public forum, accessible to anyone, and to be careful not to give away too much information if they're at all concerned about being identified in real life.

If you've got concerns about your personal data, that's a slightly different problem with a different solution. We've tried to make it as easy as possible to delete your data on your 'My Account' page. When you do this, all personally identifying information is removed from all our systems. Your post remains on the site, but it's totally anonymised because it has been completely detached from any of your data.

We hope this clears things up and thanks for your question.

Best

MNHQ

CrochetBelle · 17/07/2018 10:36

You'd think that'd be easy for MNHQ to clarify then.

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user789653241 · 17/07/2018 10:16

But the screenshot could means it was hidden for the time being, then deleted later?
It doesn't say what happens in the end.

CrochetBelle · 17/07/2018 09:54

I'm not worried, I totally understand how it works. Grin

I'm questioning the law, though. Under GDPR, people have the right to be 'forgotten'. If someone asking for their thread to be removed, had it granted, they would assume it had been removed. The slipup from MichaelMNHQ suggests these threads aren't deleted at all, just hidden from general view. I'm pretty sure this goes against GDPR rules. So, as I've been asking for the past three days, what would a user have to do/say in order to have MN comply with GDPR law. And why does Mumsnet say they have deleted content which they haven't? Transparency is all that's needed.

Here's your morning reminder @JenMNHQ Smile

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user789653241 · 17/07/2018 09:45

I wonder if it really makes any difference if it's deleted or hidden from general view, when there's some people actively stashing deleted threads somewhere else.
I'd agree, if you are worried, don't post anything you want to get deleted in the first place. You need to come to terms with the fact that once you posted, it's there somewhere on the web, like it or not.

AirForce0ne · 17/07/2018 00:07

If you are that worried about a thread existing on a server somewhere, just don't post in the first place! Unless a thread has been made about you, then you might want to keep a proof to complain about whoever started it.

Posters use other social media to copy and comment on full MN threads anyway, why does it matter that much if they are still on MN or not.

CrochetBelle · 16/07/2018 21:57

I'm not so much of a ditzy bored housewife that I'll forget about this Wink

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CrochetBelle · 16/07/2018 16:57

Still no response. Have emailed. Again.

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crunchymint · 16/07/2018 16:32

If it is not deleted, this does not comply with GDPR

CrochetBelle · 16/07/2018 12:05

Obviously trails still exist on the internet despite deleting something, but when MNHQ claim to delete something it should, to the best ability, be deleted - not just put in a seperate area to be played with by any member of staff who takes a fancy.

Why not be more transparent? Why not say it's hidden from view?

So I'll ask again... How does a user go about having something actually deleted? I believe under GPDR this is something that must be available?

And the lack of response to this, despite an email from a member of staff and at least two 'reports is extremely rude.

OP posts:
Cupoteap · 16/07/2018 07:17

*separate thing

Cupoteap · 16/07/2018 07:17

I thought there was hiding and deleting was a sepotging