Could you explain the deletions for calling out racism please?

I am now slightly grumpy.

I wish there were no deletions except for absolute unequivocal personal attacks. And only then at the request of the person being attacked. We're all grown ups here.

I'm finding it increasingly difficult to know exactly what the interpretations are within TGs.

This is a fairly new account, but before I deregged my old one I'd been on here for over 10 years.
Because I've been here well over a decade, I thought i understood TGs, but suddenly it's not ok to say 'bless', your post will be deleted.
There are plenty of "fuck off" s to be found though.
And racist comments are now acceptable, whilst calling out that racism is a deletion offence.

A single response of a few sentences by HQ on this thread.

Thanks so much.

Yes, the assumption that the woman was a bully, and should have booked in advance, as if disability means you can never have to travel at short notice was extraordinary.

And I still have on response to my report on the thread.

Sorry should be "no response"

@immortalmarble

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3241589-To-think-DD-wasn-t-unreasonable-not-to-give-up-reserved-seat?

Even if we presume the OP was real and this happened there was nothing in the story to justify all the assumptions made about the disabled character. eg:

• its her own fault for not reserving a seat (I always book a seat, it frequently fails especially with connections/changing train times)
• she should have sought out the guard (assume she hadn't made any effort on her own part)
• she should have used $RANDOM_SERVICE which is almost never available anyway. I particularly laughed at the idea that every station has spare staff to pop people in carts
• lots of posts repeating the trope that people with walking sticks are usually/often faking it "because a guard told them".

I get this a lot when traveling, its always somehow my fault for having the temerity to be employed whilst having a disability. I've been told that people like me shouldn't travel at peak times because thats when workers travel /

Very similar to the racism threads here and other bigoted threads. Lots of posts which don't actually tell anyone to fuck off but which tell people like me to fuck off in other ways

These apparently are just fine on MN.

And I still have on response to my report on the thread.

I missed that one - which one was it?

The problem ultimately stems from the fact that far too many people believe racism is only overt and explicit. They often have a vested interest in doing so: if your definition of racism is very narrow, you can then be free to openly display your prejudices and ignorance.

The “golliwog” thread was a perfect example of that sort of thinking - by denying that such a toy is actually an open display of prejudice despite all the evidence to the contrary, it serves a double purpose: firstly, you can be racist by celebrating its very existence and secondly get to have a lovely swipe at anyone offended by it by offering frantic cackles of “PC gone mad” and how goodness me, black people are very easily offended, aren’t they?

People can say that. I am generally in favour of a view being aired, challenged and ultimately hopefully disposed of. The issue is that by allowing the racist posts to stand while deleting the ones which attack the racist posts, the overall message doesn’t come across so well.

I was deleted for saying that a poster who had said they weren’t racist was, in fact, either racist or stupid.....

And my god, can't HQ just delete golliwog threads on sight? There is really no need to leave them up even if it's to 'educate' posters. Quite frankly, if you get to adulthood and don't realise golliwogs are racist then there's no hope for you!

Also, if you do an advanced search for the words 'fuck off' it returns hundreds of examples of the phrase being used (directly at other posters, as well as in other contexts). It's clearly not an automatic breach of TGs to tell someone to fuck off.

I've noticed the same threads flourishing over and over, featuring disingenuous questions about cultural appropriation and use of the word 'monkey' (usually complete with crazy fictitious black woman who takes our innocent heroine to task). They're nothing but excuses to race-bash, and it's bloody depressing that MNHQ evidently thinks they're all 'within the spirit' of the site.

This is depressing as fuck and one of the reasons I don't post on here anymore. Way to make your BAME community feel welcome, HQ.

If the guidelines say you can’t say fuck off then you can’t say fuck off, even to racists

That isn't my issue. My issue is that "fuck off" is a deleting offence but mealy mouthed racism, disablism and other *isms are acceptable.

Seriously is that really a good situation to be in?

I'm honestly appalled that its ok to use mealy mouthed words to propagate racism and disablism (the disablist thread was just as bad) but telling a bigot to "Fuck Off" is not acceptable.

That gives out an great message - that every *ism is fine on mumsnet so long as you couch it in Daily Mail speak.

Is that really what @MNHQ stands for these days?

If the guidelines say you can’t say fuck off then you can’t say fuck off, even to racists
MNHQ can’t allow people to break the guidelines when dealing with even vile arseholes unfortunately, they have to universally apply

If you think telling a racist to fuck off is worse than actually being a racist then Mumsnet has a serious problem. You may also need to revise your Talk Guidelines if "making racist comments" isn't already on the list of things you won't allow.