Suicide threat, distressed poster

I don't know why we are even having this discussion again.

It took a long time before HQ made the decision a few years ago, after consulation with the relevant professional bodies and charities. They were completely transparent with the users of the site for their reasons for coming to that decision and it seems to me that the vast majority of respondents on this thread and previous threads agree that taking the thread down is the best they can do in difficult circumstances.

I have lots of experience in this area. Although I don’t claim to be an expert. What I would hope happens (and maybe its somewehre on the thread - I haven’t read the whole thing) is that there is a message to the OP directing them to an email.
I hope that the email is as supportive and helpful as possible because the experience of having a thread deleted can be very traumatic and experienced as (another) rejection. It is essential that this is avoided, which is also why maybe it is a good idea that the thread is closed to prevent anyone posting stuff that is more upsetting.
I know that some replies to my posts have felt like being slapped, bit fortunately I wasn’t in a bad place when I posted them.

I didn't see the thread but I support the MN stance on this difficult issue.

It strikes me though that it doesn't have to be all or nothing. The MN boards are full of all sorts of people going through all sorts of struggles, any suicidal poster is welcome to post there in a new thread about all their problems.

As someone else said, even in chat or silly cat threads, the poster is still very welcome. It's not the poster whose being turned away, it's one very specific thing they just can't post about, for very sound reasons. Nobody is turning anyone away.

How will you feel if that poster whose "hand " you're "holding" jumps?
How will you feel if she posts she's going to jump because of something you say?
There's a damn good professional reason actual experts have told MN to shut down these threads.
And compassion has nothing to do with it.
What leaves me uncomfortable when reading them are the flag waving saviours who seem to look out for them. Deeply concerning.

But the experts haven’t said that ubiquity, and you’re putting words in mumsnet mouth. What they said the charities said was it was better to delete if there was a method mentioned. This is all that was said.

If you have more official info from the charities on their discussion with mumsnet then Post it officially on their behalf.

And the reality is that there is a better than average chance that these suicidal posts aren't even genuine

The thing is, I don’t care if only one in a hundred is genuine, because if that one in a hundred person is just maybe helped, it’s worth it. Deleting it because hey it might not be real is also saying I’m deleting it even though it maybe real. Saying I won’t help the one because I can’t be arsed with the other 99 isn’t ok in my view.

It doesn’t matter if there are other options available to the poster , what matters is they made the effort to reach out and they picked this one. Like the person on the bridge, you don’t tell them to dial 999 and walk away. You stay and help.

Ubiquity, for me, when the poster is responding, as she was last night, you don’t walk away. Yes there are risks, yes people could get it wrong, but they may not and no risk is as big as simply shutting the door in her face as she’s talking.

I don’t think it’s an “admirable” position, I think we would all do the same thing and that’s why there has been such an outcry over last nights thread. It’s made many of us deeply uncomfortable.

These threads are few and far between, but this is the first one I’ve seen where the quickly shutting it down has upset so many people.

The thing though is that we don't know that she reached out. Was she a regular? If not, presumably mn was just any in a number of places she (assuming it even is a she) could have happened to post. And that's assuming that it's even a real person and not a troll.

Added to which, MN is a chat forum not a MH support helpline. As crass as that sounds, there are a lot of people on here who want to post about their children/the weather/christmas, and who just want to get caught up in the posting rather than the content iyswim. What happens to those threads when someone posts that they're suicidal and then go off to sleep because they were trolling or perhaps their husband came home or maybe they called a helpline instead, and the posters who are chomping at the bit for updates want to know what's happened and get nothing in return to their "bump" posts? Or the posters who, as I said in an earlier post, are just after feeding their own rescuer complexes.

And the reality is that there is a better than average chance that these suicidal posts aren't even genuine. And even if some of them are, if you allow them to stand this will become a trolling ground for people to prey on the goodwill of others even more than they currently do. Is it not enough that we have posters who troll about failed relationships/dead babies/serious illness that we will be encouraging people to troll about suicide as well?

I also don’t agree with all the “we aren’t experts, so shut it down and point them elsewhere” that’s being posted.

If I saw someone sitting on a bridge and about to jump, I would not say “sorry I’m no expert, here’s the number of the samaratins, good luck mate” and I’m fairly sure if it was someone you knew loved or cared about you wouldn’t want me to either, you’d want me to stay and try and stop them, at least till I knew others more qualified were involved.

And that’s where I struggle with what happened last night. That complete lack of human compassion. There was no goading, no troll hunting, and the poster was interacting and responding. When they were doing that they were alive.

There was no doubt that if real it wa a cry for help. And that help was squarely refused and a telephone number provided, a number that can be engaged for up to an hour or more. A number where you physically have to talk to someone even though that might not have been something the poster could have done or have been willing to do due to others in the home.

Bottom line for me is if you wouldn’t walk away from the person on the bridge, you shouldn’t walk away from them on here either.

I feel awful that this was deleted. She reached out and was turned away?!

MN is appropriate. it is not staffed with experts on mental health and being suicidal! There are other options - such as Samaritans - for the OP. I agree with MN here. tricky decision.

The internet is not the right place for people who are so mentally ill.

Wow. Your compassion just shines through, doesn't it.

I am pretty certain i have seen threads deleted when there has been no mention of method. Just suicide.
Of course this shouldn't be a place to discuss how to do it. But why can't we offer a place people can offload and maybe be directed to RL help.

namechange987 sorry you felt you were unwelcome on MN, but your interpretation of that e-mail proves my point of how difficult it is to word a written communication to someone in distress. Also, your suggestion that MN advise posters of what is and isn't allowed in the context of suicide could be used as a 'How to Guide' for posters with dubious intent.

This wasn't a decision MNHQ took lightly and they took it after speaking extensively to Mental Health charities.

LoverOfCake I agree with your post.

Absolutely right that suicide threads are deleted. The internet is not the right place for people who are so mentally ill.
What’s to stop a few trolls coming online & encouraging her? didn’t that happen on FB not too long ago?
The Samaritans might not be everyone’s saviour, but they’re better than the internet.
And as hard as this may sound - if suicide threads were allowed, many posters ( & advitisers ) would leave.

Mn is not a suicide support forum and neither should it be. The members here are not equipped or qualified to deal with apparently suicidal posters and as such these threads should be taken down.

Added to which, the idea that mumsnet could or should be seen as someone's only support forum in the whole wide world, and that mumsnetters are potentially the only people who can be there for a suicidal poster is arrogant in the extreme. Added to which, the reality is that for many, the motivation will not be about helping the poster but to feed their own rescuer complexes.

In addition, we have no idea who any of the names on this screen are. Someone posting that they are suicidal could just be someone seeking attention, seeing whether or not they might get any responses, and equally the respondents could be anyone or no-one.

And no, MN HQ do not have a duty to report any of these threads to the police.

They have taken professional advice from MH charities on whether these threads should be left to stand, and the unanimous feedback has been that they should not.

This is a difficult issue but one thing that does come out of it for me is that there really is a need for professional, paid overnight moderation, so that volunteers aren't having to deal with incredibly sensitive threads and deletion decisions. MN have decided they don't want to pay for that, but I continue to think there's a case for it.

I know RedDogs, and I'm not disagreeing with that. But the current policy, which seems very dismissive to those who ARE suicidal, seems a greater risk. I'm not saying that they should all be kept up, but perhaps the wording of the dismissive email to posters needs a revision. Rather than effectively sending suicidal posters away, it might be more helpful to signpost them to Samaritans and other sources AND advise them that they can start a new thread asking for support but stipulating what is and isn't allowed in the context of suicide. Their current email made me feel unwelcome on MN.

runwalk are you thinking of the swedish twins when you say it can be transferred?

I was thinking of Bridgend.