MNHQ here: have you got strong feelings and personal experience about partners staying overnight on postnatal wards?

"I suspect one unanticipated side effect of all partners staying would be that inevitably children would start to stay too"

I don't believe this is true at all. Many hospitals already let partners stay. I have never heard anybody suggest children stay too, let alone heard of it actually taking place.

That's another point about space, actually.

My hospital, bays are four beds. All bays. Regular wards, children's wards (needing space for parent staying) and PN wards (needing space for fish tanks)

If four patients fit in a bay usually, how are we going to fit eight adults and a minimum of four babies in the same space?

I think it would be cruel not to allow partners to stay.

I was in a very bad way mentally and physically after the birth of my son, the worst time of my life and I'd not slept in days. To not have my partner with me that first vulnerable night at least would have made the whole experience twice as traumatic. Also, I was barely able to move and very weak, the staff were all rushed off their feet and I'd not have been able to care for my baby without my partners assistance.

Traumatic births aren't uncommon, I imagine many women have felt and will feel the need for emotional support from their partners after the experience, not to mention physical assistance which hospitals are not always able to provide. Sadly, the NHS is already pushed to its limits, it would be impossible for hospital staff to meet all these needs.

I was so glad to have my partner with me and I was glad other women were able to have theirs with them. Everyone was quiet and respectful, I didn't see anyone outside their curtains. If someone else's partner had seen me staggering to the toilet in bloodied pyjamas, there would have been no need to feel embarrassed as we were all there for the same reason.

I have heard stories of women not being able to sleep due to noisy patients and visitors/staying partners on postnatal wards which is terrible, but I think the way to tackle this is to make rules stricter regarding patient and visitor etiquette and for these rules to be explained clearly, perhaps with a member of staff doing a walk around the ward every so often to make sure nobody is playing loud music on phones or speaking loudly etc. I don't think the answer is banning partners in wards.

I would have hated it to be honest. I stayed for 2 nights both times. In our case DH was better off getting rest at home and the second time caring for our older child. It is difficult enough to sleep without adding in extra bodies that don't need to be there. Understandably some feel they need their partners there and there needs to be some sensible flexibility. I think major over hall of postnatal wards would be required to make this practical.

The first night with both of my babies I was recovering from spinal anasetic and had a catheter in. The midwives and health care assistants weere beyond fantastic helping care for me and my new borns. What is vital in my oppinion is making sure postnatal wards have time and the correct number of staff to ensure all women can be adequately supported while their partners are not able to be there. I was helped with establishing breast feeding, I wasn't left alone with a unsetlable baby while exhausted or left waiting for pain medication.

I have spent far too many nights in the children's ward with ds and can't imagin how it would work. It is a juggling act to fit folding beds in there for a parent to stay postnatal wards have even less room.

If we're assuming that being away from the baby affects bonding, does that mean all father of 2/3/4 dc are automatically less bonded with the others than dc1 as they would have needed to be Home with dc1 when dc2/3/4 were born?

I suspect one unanticipated side effect of all partners staying would be that inevitably children would start to stay too, and partners of less conscientious fathers will then end up trying to manage toddlers and kids as well as a baby. Women on these threads often talk about how difficult it can be at visiting times with children not being well supervised on the post natal ward; imagine that all night.

It would work beautifully if everyone could be trusted at all times to follow the jolly good chap principle, everyone was considerate of others and every man was a good partner and father. Unfortunately this won't be the case. It's already apparent on this thread that midwives are not easily able to eject family members not behaving appropriately, and they don't have the time to do their primary jobs never mind behave as bouncers. I'd also worry about women who give birth alone, as over time staff caring for post birth women will inevitably become used to relying on a partner normally doing aspects of the care.

That doesn't mean I'm not desperately sorry for a semi paralysed, bleeding, shocked and very unwell woman alone at 3 am with a totally dependent baby she isn't physically able to care for, when no one answers buzzers and she gets told off if she tries to gain help.

The answer has to start with properly manned, resourced and staffed post natal care.

That still doesn't stop money being spent on non-patients and extra work being created for the midwives due to the presence of extra people. It also doesn't help those women who don't have a partner or who's partner can't stay. Plus, what do you do if a woman wants to be in the patient only room but it's full?

On the other hand, I do agree that women who deliver in the middle of the night should be allowed to have their partner come to the ward with them for, say, half an hour to help them get settled. Then they should leave and go and get some sleep and come back when visiting time starts again

Beauty, through better facilities with an acceptable level of privacy, or separate wards for those who do/ do not want or need a partner present seem like the most sensible solutions.

My wife was on a shared ward for a night and another woman's husband stayed overnight, fell asleep in the chair and kept everyone awake snoring! What a prick!

Ok show me some statistics that show that men who don't spend the first two nights with their baby struggle to bond.
I don't believe it.

We all would like private rooms- in the absence of that- this is putting vulnerable new mothers in a more vulnerable position.

Wooo how would you address or minimise the issues that I mentioned? Or are those acceptable issues that just have to be put up with?

If we're assuming that being away from the baby affects bonding, does that mean all father of 2/3/4 dc are automatically less bonded with the others than dc1 as they would have needed to be Home with dc1 when dc2/3/4 were born?

It's great Mumsnet are campaigning for better care and any improvement would be welcomed by all I am sure. I just can't see standards ever being raised to a level where the support of partners isn't required for the mothers to receive the help they need and the babies to receive proper care because the current situation is a million miles from that. I would love to be proved wrong!

Then of course there are the emotional support aspects or having the partner present as highlighted by previous posters, which medical staff could never replace. And the importance of being able to share those special first hours as a family. I think it would be fine to ban other visitors at all times, especially large groups, but each woman should be able to have one person stay with them 24/7 if they choose to in my opinion.

At 11pm the curtains were all shut, the lights were off, and most people were trying to sleep. Far less intrusive than 11am, when the cleaners and hostesses kept opening the curtains without knocking (exposing me when I was BF) and everyone was coming and going.

It would be horrific and cruel to force women to watch their newborn cry, helpless and unable to give the baby the help it needs because they are alone.

Totally agreed and that's why it's so great that MN are doing their Better Postnatal Care campaign.

But bringing in partners shouldn't be the fix for that. Not everyone has a partner, not everyone has a partner who can be there. It's not solving the problem if I have a partner there to help me, but the woman in the next bed still has to watch her newborn cry unable to help it, only now with the added stress of sharing a ward with blokes she doesn't know as well.

Imisschocolate I sympathise with that - I also had other people's noisy visitors to deal with all day, and then a baby that wouldn't sleep without being held/fed all night. I was dead on my feet, I was so tired I was hallucinating. It was horrible and I really, really wish that there had been more time without visitors there so I could've got some kip during the day. It seemed really upside-down that huge extended families wanting to troop in with helium balloons got prioritised over my need to rest and sleep after two days of labour and a major op!

But, if partners had been allowed at night, that would have made night times even noisier and busier on my ward. Maybe my husband could have held my baby and let me sleep, which would have been great - but the husband of the woman next to me was a noisy, inconsiderate arse, and I doubt he'd have been any less so at night. I certainly wouldn't have been more comfortable having a ward packed with blokes I didn't know 24/7. And there were women whose partners couldn't be there for various reasons - their needs should matter as well.

I had a similar experience imisschocolate. I don't have a partner. It was completely crap but the solution is to campaign for better post natal care for all women, not for unqualified and untrained partners to do it.

In this end this comes back to the old Tory vs Labour debate: are you for the many or the few?

To be honest Ollena, I highly doubt that postnatal wards in the UK will now be allocated sufficient resources to make that a viable alternative. Until such time as sufficient staffing is in place to ensure that buzzers are answered straight away women will continue to need their partners there with them, particularly those who have had C sections so cannot lift their baby to feed, change or cuddle it. It would be horrific and cruel to force women to watch their newborn cry, helpless and unable to give the baby the help it needs because they are alone.

histinyhandsarefrozen since women who are unable to spend much time with their babies when they are first born often mention difficulty with bonding, why would it be ridiculous to suggest men could feel the same?

imisschocolate I'm sorry you experienced such appalling "care". I hope you were able to make a complaint about the midwives and the whole set up.

What would improve that situation for you and for other women who may not have partners who can stay, is to improve the basic standard of care. Allowing partners to stay overnight is an attempt to put a very limited sticking plaster over the issue. It will allow hospitals to get away with appalling standards because most people will have someone who can provide the basic care that is lacking. But it won't fix the basic issue and it will bring plenty of its own problems too. Like exposing women to men who are not decent and trustworthy. Like removing the opportunity for women to disclose abuse and seek help. Money will be spent on facilities that are not for patients. Extra work enforcing behaviour for the midwives. Extra stress for women who don't want to sleep in a shared space with a several unknown men whilst they are very physically vulnerable.

"women who want privacy, dignity and peace & quiet to recover

I don't dispute this but I dispute that the presence of men prevents this So you're denying other women's lived experience and the absence of them creates it. Nobody is saying it does-but it contributes

My husband wasn't even allowed to accompany me onto the post natal ward.

I had am emergency c-section and by the tine i was done on recovery it was 4am when i was moved through to postnatal.i had DD husband had our bags. We were walking towards lifts, stopped and midwife told DH that the exit was down the corridor. We were not given a chance to say goodbye or for him even to give me a hug which i desperately needed. I had no idea tbat he would not be allowed to come up with us to get settled although i did know he wouldn't be allowed to stay. He had to dump our bags on my feet at thd bottom of the bed cause there was no where else to put them.

I was then taken up to ward and left holding DD for 30 mins with bags on my feet before one of the post natal midwifes came to talk to me. I wasn't handed the buzzer or anything when i arrived and couldn't move because i had a catheter in.

I really needed him with me even for an hour because of everything that i had just gone through.

Spending 13.5 hours alone in the evenings was awful. My neighbour in the ward had noisy visitors all day so i couldn't sleep when my husband was there and at night DD wouldn't sleep in crib so i was holding her all night. I was in for 3 days and was in tears because i was so tired. If DH had been allowed to stay i could have got sone sleep.

I founf the fact that there were 12 visitors at one point with my neighbours and the fact that visiting hours were not enforced so much more intrusive (as they kept opening my curtain!) then if there had been husbands allowed.

I needed my DH.

women who want privacy, dignity and peace & quiet to recover

I don't dispute this but I dispute that the presence of men prevents this and the absence of them creates it.

Partners did not stay in my maternity hospital but I was awake all night with crying babies, other patients on the phone, talking to nurses and so on. I overhead people's domestic and medical information and they mine. I had to waddle past people half-dressed and they had to waddle past me. I cried all over the consultant and probably lots of people saw and heard.

Whether there were men there made no difference whatsoever.

Surely people aren't arguing that the fathers who go home (maybe to look after their other children) have less idea of the division of labour or are less bonded than those who stay?

That would be ridiculous.

Giving birth is a very emotional, personal thing to do. You might want your adoring DP there, the woman in the bed next you might not. Therefore it's best to work to the scenario which is less intrusive all round.