MNHQ here: have you got strong feelings and personal experience about partners staying overnight on postnatal wards?

I think it's culturally insensitive to allow men almost unlimited access in a woman's place. Some partners will be a great help and some will show up sporadically and off their face not. Some women could use this time to talk to professionals if they're being abused and their partners are always by their side till now.

Counter to Cherries' point about support for feminism meaning partners should stay - no. I'm a feminist, and for me, feminism is not about rendering biology invisible. It remains the woman who has actually given birth, the woman whose body has gone through the physical effort and often trauma of childbirth, the woman's body which (if she chooses to) will sustain her child through breast-feeding which needs calm and support to establish.

By all means encourage men to take shared paternal leave, to do nursery and school runs, to be stay-at-home parents if they choose, to drop their hours at work to take an equal share in parenting if both parents choose to work. I will support those 100% as feminist initiatives. By child-bearing, by biological necessity, is a female activity. Women's needs on post-natal wards trump men's wants, every single time.

ohfox fair enough but the thread is specifically asking about views on feelings about partners staying on PN wards.

And for me the bonding thing is a none argument. Women give birth under all sorts of circumstances and babies are born in all sorts of conditions, whcih sometimes means mums cannot look after or hold their baby straight away.

We know that this doesn't mean mum and baby won't bond well, but it doesn't mean it's not less than ideal. Saying they will be fine doesn't make it less ideal for men either.

Where's the money coming from?

Better ways to spend public money. It's the NHS FFS.

If midwives up and down the country regaled the positivities of having partners (if you have one) stay then I'd listen. But there's much more pressing needs to be addressed.

I have ready weighed in strongly on the original post natal care campaign thread - with a resounding yes, partners should be allowed on wards.

There a lots of reasons I think this; I'll list the important ones here.

• First and foremost, the child I have just given birth to is equally my partners child, he deserves to share in this experience as much as I do.

• Women need the support of someone close to them after such an event. Childbirth is sometimes traumatic and always exhausting, physically and emotionally. I strongly believe in emotional support for mothers at all stages of pregnancy and childbirth, and the benefits should not be understated. A partner is the best person to offer this in a postnatal environment. Having a newborn is an overwhelmingly new experience for first time mums and having the other parent or someone experienced like their own mother is important for confidence and coping well. A stranger just cannot replace that bond or replicate that trust.

• Practicality. You need someone with you who can help you do the basics, even if better postnatal services are in place. Pouring water, finding food, finding out how the ward works, looking after the baby while you go to the toilet etc are really important and I wouldn't be happy leaving my newborn in the care of someone I didn't know.

• This point is secondary and is more my personal opinion, but I don't appreciate the encouragement of out dated and old fashioned gender roles. Not allowing males onto the maternity ward really feeds into the old fashioned idea of a wOman being left to care for the child while dad carries on with life as normal. It's not a good start.

I have also asked my partner and he also feels strongly he should be able to be their with his newborn. He was the first time and he damn sure will be there this time. He finds it infair that his gender should limit his rights in this way. There needs to be better services for women who are truly uncomfortable with men around, but this does not trump the needs of the many families who want to be together during such a special time

There are plenty of alternatives to banning partners that would solve the issue. . -

• Providing more private space or redesigning wards so more privacy is possible.

• Asking women their preference as part of their antenatal care to help arrangements be made in advance.

• Having those spaces available for women who do truly need that private space by increasing private rooms in hospitals. Perhaps in the long term even investing in hotel style post natal accommodation as seen in countries like Spain.

• discharging healthy women who have had uncomplicated births promptly so they can go home and be with their families - I was deemed fit to go home 5 hours after giving birth but was kept on the busy postnatal ward until 11pm that night - my bed could have been used for someone else.

• increasing the campaign and awareness to support home births for uncimplicated pregnancies - if the women and their partners aren't on a hospital ward, it's not a problem!

• limited visiting times would do not work.

• limit other visitors. I wonder if the general sense of the wards being crowded with people who aren't the new mothers is what contributes to negative feelings towards partners on the birth wards. There were far, far too many visitors on the ward and the lack of privacy was intense. I had to walk past about 12 people clustered round a bed, the woman's curtains open to accommodate the large amount of visitors, in my bloodstained nightie in order to attempt my first post epidural wee, on wobbly legs. It was not a comfortable experience.

Provide separate basic facilities like toilets and showers for patients and partners. If this is not feasible, then simply make facilities on the postnatal ward itself patient only. Able bodied partners are perfectly capable of using public hospital toilets instead of the ones located specifically on the ward.

That's my two cents. I do feel so strongly about this. There are so so many things possible to fix this other than banning partners for the ward.

I wish my DH could've stayed with me after DC4. She was 10 weeks early, had a c section under general anaesthetic and we both had to be resuscitated. DC was whipped straight off to NICU and I was plonked in the middle of the ward. Thankfully my DM came and kicked up a fuss so was moved to a side room. There was nobody to take me to se DC (I was too ill to walk) so I didn't see her for 16 hours after she was born. If DH would have been allowed to stay I would have been less worried about her as I could have sent him down or he could have wheeled me down.

Its utterly depressing.

I twice signed a waiver/disclaimer or something to get me out of that shitty hell-hole quicker than advised. That's what they will see a lot more of. Maybe that's part of the plan?

On kids wards a parent is allowed to stay and I think that can be either gender

I didn't want my husband after I'd given birth, I wanted my Mum. My husband was shellshocked, traumatised, exhausted and quite frankly, useless. I chose a MLU and planned to be in and out with no fuss After 30 hours of back to back labour and a very stuck baby, I had an EMCS.

I was still completely numb from the chest down, had been awake for 48 hours and had "lost more blood than we like you too". And then all my support was sent home. I didn't sleep a wink. I was so mentally and physically drained, frightened to death of doing something wrong and exhausted beyond words. I was in a ward with 3 other women, one who refused to feed her baby (not breastfeed, bottle feed, every time her baby cried, she called for a MW and ignored the baby until one came. She "was in hospital for a break, I have to do it all when I get home") Another who's mobile phone rang loudly, she got calls and texts all night.

The MW tried their best but it was busy, calls went unanswered for a long time. The baby had been put in the crib too far away for me to reach so I had to stand up to get him, I bled over the floor, I was mortified and tried to clean it up away ls best I could.

I asked for help with breastfeeding and the midwife told me to feed him lying down, but I couldn't lie down because my body wouldn't let me and I was in pain, plus I was utterly terrified of falling asleep and crushing him. We'd been warned not to cosleeping as "a baby fell out of bed last week in this room because Mum fell asleep with him!"

I couldn't keep getting in/out of bed to put him in the incubator (my catheter was too short and I was tethered to the bed one end by that and the other end with a cannula attached to a drip.) So I just sat up with him between my legs until 7am when I rang my Dad to tell him to send someone before I went slightly mad with lack of sleep. I've never been so exhausted in my life. I bled through my dressing and needed it to be changed as I was sitting in a puddle of blood, the HCP apologised and was lovely but it still took over 45 minutes from me ringing the buzzer.

Would it have been easier if I'd had someone there with me? Yes. Would it have been even more hellish if I'd had to deal with three other women's partners? Absolutely yes. It was hot, cramped, I was in no fit state and in an environment I'd never anticipated being in. I just got on with it at the time (because there was no alternative ) but looking back it really blows my mind to remember.

But allowing or not allowing partners isnt the answer. It's more midwives, more health care professionals, more funding for maternity care. I discharged myself after 24 hours because I needed sleep and help and there was no way on earth I was spending another night in hospital where I'd get very little of either.

They need more nurses and carers to help women who need it. Not an extra six men on every ward!!!!!

So all the people wanting partners to stay 24hrs on shared wards are pretty much saying it's to benefit themselves only. There's no benefit for all women to it, only drawbacks for everyone else. Also that there's no prospect at all of improving NHS post natal care, so this is the only option.

The NHS need to be upfront about it though, and make it clear to women that they can't expect basic care, and that to make that possible each woman must bring a competent adult to give basic care for the duration of their stay.

Having been traumatised by horrendous midwifery care I will never, ever accept any form of medical treatment/management without my partner present. I appreciate this is an extreme position to take, and I have no wish to distress other individuals. However it is a very definite line in the sand for me. I will not entertain him not being there. Funny how the local hospital jumped to attention and provided facilities without a whimper for child 2, (born within the window after dc1 where I could have sought compensation) but tried not to for dc3 born severally years later.

No, not in a shared ward.

DH wasn't allowed to accompany me on to the post natal ward after DS1 was born in the middle of the night, after a long and difficult labour. He bonded absolutely fine.

When I had DS2 I was still unable to walk, at all, unaided due to very severe SPD. The midwives helped me look after him. I couldn't do anything for him other than breastfeed him. I needed help to wash and shower myself too.

If a woman was operated on in a gynaecology ward, or any other ward, where she felt in such a vulnerable position they would never be expected to sleep a curtain's width from a male who is not a patient and it shouldn't happen in an post natal ward either.

Traumatic induction. 40+12. Gave birth at 40+16. Was meant to be a homebirth.
I think I would have lost the plot if my (female) partner had not been allowed to stay. Baby born just before midnight. I was very 'not with it' and the care on the ward was woeful. General policy was that partners didn't stay though.
I think this was one of those rare times (aside from swimming pool changing rooms) where being in a same-sex relationship was advantageous.

One note... People might be a little less keen to have their partner stay in if they didn't feel so trapped in hospital. Eg No complications following ds2s birth, but there was no one available to discharge us for an additional two days.

I thought I'd be saving the NHS a fortune by opting for a home birth. Sadly due to a 3rd degree tear needed surgery and wasn't allowed to escape for 2 days (almost 3). It was hell. I was lucky I had a private room but still did not know hospital protocol. Hence didn't leave room until dH arrived (so wet the bed as couldn't leave dd).
I think the whole birth/ward etc system needs a shake up. Yes, of course you can't have millions of rellies on wards etc but I'm guessing the NHS can't afford private rooms for all customers.

If your partner stays I think it should be a case of being in a private room.

The woman next to myself her partner not only stayed he opened my curtains took my visitors chair and walked off with it to put his feet up to have a sleep whilst I was breastfeeding

I didn't have the best of luck with the birth of my DS I was in the hospital for almost a week as I had to be induced so 4 nights I was on my own the night before my waters were due to be broken my husband was allowed to stay with me as this was going to happen first thing as soon as labour ward had room for me luckily we were in a side room very long story too much to really go in to depth over all experience At said hospital was a nightmare anyhow I ended up having to go into theatre in end for a forceps delivery I lost a lot of blood my DS was born early hours so thankfully my husband was able to stay and it was a good job he did as I was in no fit state to take care of our DS I couldn't move so I think at times partners should be allowed to stay with their wives, Girlfriends etc

The thing is that being in hospital is just pretty shit. It's noisy, you get bothered every half hour for something or other, there are too many lights on, you may feel self conscious about your own medical stuff and grossed out by other people's, you can't sleep...the list goes on. And being around other people is, for some people, also shit. The women in my post-natal ward were chatters and loved other new mums being around. I couldn't bear it (I'm sure they're all lovely people, just not what I could personally deal with in that state at that time)

My hospital let partners stay. I had a really traumatic birth and a non-breathing baby who was whisked away to SCBU and stayed there for three nights. I would have had (even more) severe mental health problems had I not had my partner there. More midwives wouldn't have helped at all.

But, as this thread has shown, lot of women have strong and specific needs after birth. Doesn't that mean the solution has to be a mix of wards - some allowing men, some not. It's doable and doesn't cost loads more money - just allocate wards and tell men to use visitor facilities only. Of course there will be nights when a woman can't get her preference (just like now when not everyone can get a side room is they want/are willing to pay for one), but that's already managed in hospitals. You don't need extra space - our hospital had reclining chairs (which put partners off staying unless they really wanted to, in my experience). And you need rules about behaviour and a security team to enforce (and hospitals already have a lot of security - it's about management not cash).

And on a side note, personally I think it's a bit crap to charge people for private rooms if they're staying more than one night. A six night stay (which mine was) in our local hospital adds up to about 800 for a private room - it's not like you have much of a choice about whether to stay (I was ready to discharge myself and the baby if they'd tried to make us stay one more night, but that's a different story!)

I think we have to rethink maternity care entirely. Mothers should have the choice of having their partners with them during childbirth and beyond for all of the reasons previous posters have cited, but our hospitals are just not geared up for that. Perhaps what we need is to un-medicalise childbirth and to encourage those with no complications or difficulties to give birth at home.

It is unthinkable to have men on wards with vulnerable, bleeding and exhausted women.

Partners should only be allowed to stay if they have a side room and not on a ward with other mothers.

I would have loved my DH to stop with me the first night after having DS1. A 32 hour labour followed by an EMSC, I was exhausted and needed him there with me. It certainly would have helped me in my recovery and can't help thinking my PND may not have been as bad if he'd been allowed to stay as was in 3 nights.

The hospital where I gave birth was recently renovated in a massive way. Almost all wards, adult and paediatric, replaced with individual rooms. Great idea!

Not postnatal, though. Postnatal ward was still six to a bay. Sigh.

What some other people have said - it should not be a question about fathers staying, but why are there wards in the first place. I have personally seen maternity hospitals in 3 other European countries, and the biggest rooms were doubles, otherwise there were either private rooms or special family rooms.

Clearly funding is the issue - and I don't think the best solution is not letting fathers stay so they can do the job of over-worked midwives.

beyondofbob they just had reclining chairs in my hospital. Didn't take up any more space.