MNHQ here: have you got strong feelings and personal experience about partners staying overnight on postnatal wards?

Because you've said it isn't happening. You know that there hasn't been an increase in self discharging.

No, not in a shared ward.

1st birth no partners allowed to stay on ward, was ok noise etc

2nd different hospital partners allowed- was horrendous the noise, heat and lack of space on a 6 bed ward was too much.

3rd birth same hospital as 2nd I refused to go onto a ward. Just point blank refused.

Not sure where in any if my posts I have given the impression it's a non problem?

And Assassinated the way you've worded your question is again very dismissive of women who have genuine valid needs to have their partners there. Of course I am "worried" for all women who have such bad experiences on PN wards that they would be willing to discharge themselves before was medically advisable to do so. But there are many, many reasons why women might and do feel that way, and everyone's perspectives are valid.

It is not as simple as drawing a line and saying right, no partners overnight, that's best for all women, so let's do it. There must have been genuine reason for them to change these policies relatively recently and I can see the logic behind it, even if it dosent suit every woman. That doesn't mean I think the system is ideal by any means.

Ah, so you think it's a non problem. It's not NHS policy, I don't think, as the hospital I was at had trialled it and then not implemented it due to overwhelmingly negative feedback from women.

Assassinated equally I would have discharged myself had I been in that situation all alone. If I had known it was possible I would have done so anyway!

As I said there is no either/or solution that will suit all women. It i's already the case that the NHS has changed its policy and that partners are allowed to stay on wards overnight, and I'm not aware of mass self discharges occurring since this decision was made.

Another one to agree not on a shared ward.

My first night with my new baby was one of the loneliest nights of my life, I had a traumatic birth with emcs and just felt completely overwhelmed.

Would I have liked to be in a private room with my dh? Yes definitely and would have paid extra to do so, but there were no rooms available as they were only on offer to pay for it they weren't used for other cases.

But I was in a tiny cramped ward with 6 other people plus babies (my mum has spent a lot of time in hospital with cancer and commented on how much smaller the maternity ward was). I would have hated it more if there were 12 adult bodies in there, snoring, talking, making noise.

I'm pregnant again know and going to have an elective c section at a different hospital, a big reason for this is because I know I can book a private room in advance. Partners not allowed to stay over but no official visiting hours so can be there the whole day until about 10pm so alot less lonely.

Unfortunately too many people are loud, rude and inconsiderate to allow partners in wards as well, it's not exactly restful for women who are in a very vulnerable position.

Cherries, you would push for partners to stay in wards as they stand now, with no alterations, because you think that's better for women overall?

You're not worried about women who would discharge themselves early rather than have to be in that situation?

Not on a shared ward.

I was on a shared ward and although partners were allowed, I took one look at the chair for him to sleep on and told him to go home. It seemed stupid for both of us to be exhausted. The noise and disruption all night from other women's partners was inconsiderate, unnecessary and infuriating. I wasn't too worried about privacy but I totally get that a lot of women don't want strange men wandering around when they are in pain, exhausted and vulnerable.

Those who do want partners on shared wards seem to want them because their experience of the healthcare system was so awful. Surely the answer is to improve the NHS rather than impose a load of random men on women at their most vulnerable??

Beyond sorry to clarify, I am surprised and saddened for you that your partner wasn't able to support you.

In the hospital I'm at it is standard that partners can stay overnight and I actually thought this was NHS guidelines and available in most hospitals? I'm obviously wrong about that. I do think that more practical things can be done, other countries with a similar level of development can offer better physical facilities and infrastructure to better look after new mums. I have no idea what this would cost I'm the long run and no idea if many more staff, better training and better facilities on existing wards would cost a lost less. Honestly I have no idea.

I said was responding specifically to your "first and foremost" post- your main reason being that 'men deserve to share the experience'.

That's clearly a very different reason from women needing someone there.

I think you've got some great workable ideas for improving birth experiences- But i think saying more private spaces which of course is ideal - is absolutely pie in the sky.

Beyond I'm surprised at your experience and this is why I lean towards the status quo at my hospital which is to allow partners to stay 24/7 as the lesser of 2 evils.

My hospital is one of the worst in the country for maternity services and genuinely I have no desire to ever encourage it to have a ban on partners staying with new mothers. And even if services improved, I still feel that fathers should be there too, regardless of how "laughable" that is to some people!

That's fine if you find it laughable histiny honestly. But how about having some compassion for women who have different views and experiences to you?

My birth was traumatic. The midwife dealing with my labour treated me with utter contempt, and almost let my baby die. I have strong feelings that I absolutely needt partner there, but I have never once said that it should be an either/or situation. I fully support the rights and needs of women who feel the opposite to me and have tried to suggest practical ways of going about this. I've found it a common theme on this subject that women who dont want partners around are absolutely blind to the real and perfectly valid needs other women have, simply because their viewpoints differ. If that's an attitude towards other women you are happy to have, then that's your perogative.

Incidentally, there's a great episode of Yes Minister where Sir Humphrey explains to Jim Hacker how to get the right answer to a questionnaire by phrasing the question right (e.g. National Service - do you want to stop thugs from roaming the street by instilling military discipline in kids/ do you want thuggish kids with military training roaming the streets?)

I suspect with this you'd get quite different answers from the majority of women depending on whether you phrased the question "do you want your husband there 24 hours a day?" and "Do you want everyone else's husband there 24 hours a day?"

The trick is, surely, to get women to consider both questions, then give the answer they feel is the overall best one, given the facilities available, not the one in an ideal world where they had a private room and only their own husband.

And yes, it really does come down to resources. We do not, and never will, live in an ideal world with infinite resources. What do we take money from in order to build loads of private rooms? Dialysis? Heart operations? Oncology? And if we don't have private rooms, which wins? Having your own partner there at the cost of having everyone else's partner there too, or having privacy at the cost of not having your partner there?

Answers on a post-card.

As I said upthread, DH is my carer for both psychological and physical reasons. Both with planned and emergency admission to a gynae ward, having DH stay as my carer couldn't be accommodated, regardless of how stressful the situation would be for me.

Not being argumentative (honestly!), I just want to figure out where you stand on this. Do you think all wards should have adequate provision for someone to stay? Private ensuite rooms everywhere? (Don't nurses prefer bays for care? Sure I remember reading that somewhere)

Yes but when I suggest practical things that would improve ward quality and make it more comfortable for everyone to have partners stay I'm delusional, yet everyone who says that we just need every hospital to not have overstretched underpaid staff and exemplary midwifery care it's perfectly reasonable and realistic.

it's not a dig at you honestly, it's just a bit sad because I feel like people are "in their camps" and just really don't want to acknowledge the other side of the story.

There is no money- and the people have voted for no more money.

I'm sorry I find your reason number one, your main reason, laughable. Really.

And sorry just another point I meant to add - people are deluded if they think that no men on the ward would equal peace calm and quiet!! Apart from "army of visitors woman" opposite me I didn't hear a peep from any men, just a lot of very loud inconsiderate women, talking on the phone loudly at 1am, arguing with midwives (lovely woman next to me ripped into a midwife who explained to her that of her twins hadn't eaten in 6 hours then she should have woken them up for a feed) , women having contractions as there was no room on the labour ward, playing TV through smartphones in the early hours of the morning, staff coming and going and women being moved in and out at all hours. Having a another person on the ward behind their curtains with them was truly not but a drop in the ocean of cacaphony that happens on a post natal ward. The idea that removing a few people from a ward for a few hour's would suddenly turn it into a calm and peaceful environment to establish breastfeeding is actually laughable, sorry

I did have a CS - and with pretty much any major surgery, from CS to hip replacements, current practice is to get the patient back on their feet ASAP because it's in their best interests - it dramatically reduces the risk of post-operative blood clots.

We're back to the issue of decent funding for necessary medical care (not fripperies). I was fortunate enough to have exemplary care post CS - midwives and paediatric nurses on hand to help me lift my baby. I realise that's because I was lucky - I "won" the postcode lottery and was in a hospital which wasn't over-stretched. What I would like is for all women to win the postcode lottery because we start funding midwifery, obstetrics and gynaecology (and the rest of the health service) properly.

Yes histiny thats exactly what I think. Strip women of all their rights and autonomy and let "the men" do what they will.

Let's completely ignore the fact that many women need that support and welcome it with open arms. And skirt over any women who share their traumatic experiences and state how it would have been so much more positive with someone looking after them.

Is it really that implausible to move ward setup around? My hospital have done this recently... And in any case lots of the things I suggested are affordable or cost nothing. And they're only suggestions anyway

So all my rights as a woman to recover from giving birth with privacy and dignity - as they would be on any other ward- are suddenly worth nothing compared to a mans rights to 'share in the experience?'

And you say you worry about gender roles, really?

You are living in a dream world if you sincerely believe hospitals are going to 'get redesigned' with more private spaces/rooms.

Beyond tell that to a woman who has had a c section and is expected from day 1 to walk out of bed and get food or water or use the toilet. But she can't leave her baby alone. You will find that this experience is common amongst women who have had their partners shipped out.

It's not just about having a nice fluffy experience for everyone from dad to the extended family. It's about supporting women through an exhausting and traumatic event.

And I do thing home births and MLU should be more encouraged - I think it's unnatural and detrimental to women's emotional wellbeing to not have ongoing emotional support from someone she has come to know and trust - be that a birth partner or doula.

But the fact is the very women who need their partners there the most are the ones who have had the most difficult births. It's not just a case being precious or something..

M0stly

But what about the wishes of the mother?

I would be interested to know, statistically the proportion women in the UK who are happy to have partners on the ward vs those who don't, rather than just a MN thread.

There are circumstances on which women will find the presence of their partner on the ward with them essential, and some women will be in circumstances where a female only zone is imperative to their mental wellbeing.

I am actually disappointed with the wording of the OP by mumsnet. If you followed the postnatal care campaign thread, it was apparent that this is the most hotly debated issue surrounding it.

However rather than fuelling and either or debate I feel that women, and Mumsnet, should be inspiring discussion about how those of us with polarized opinions to come up with suggestions about how women and the NHS can collaboratively come up with realistic solutions which make both groups of women happy.

I get it, that people are of the opinion that it's easier to ban partners than to allow them, but it doesn't address the equally valid issues this causes to a new mother's emotional wellbeing when she relies on a birth partner being with her after the birth.

I don't think female partners, mothers or sisters should be there either. It's a hospital, not an "experience"

You want an "experience"? Until the NHS has private rooms as standard, you birth at home or in an MLU. If you need a hospital, it's for a reason.

I feel very strongly that it shouldn't happen. I feel very strongly that it's diverting money away from other areas which need funding. I can't believe Midwives would go for it either. They are missing from this debate.