MNHQ here: have you got strong feelings and personal experience about partners staying overnight on postnatal wards?

I never said anywhere it was a nationwide policy, why are people so focused on the fact that I refer to it as a policy?! It is the policy in my hospital and all I meant was it's my understanding that it was being rolled out in quite a few and was just musing on the fact that there must have been some reason/perceived support for it!

53rd, I do apologise. I didn't have to open the curtains at all on my ward, and didn't the whole time I was there - no one had to. So I assumed it was simply the case in any ward that allowed visitors or partners staying. Clearly I was wrong, and that does sound awful if that's the case that people are both forced to have curtains opened and be around strange people (also what I meant by "public place".

It's very hard, on the one hand incompletely stand by the points I've made in my original OP, but I honestly didnt realise some places also had an open curtain policy, obviously that is a huge thing. I wouldnt feel comfortable even on a same sex ward with that being the case?

So I still think alternative measures can be put in place to allow families who want to stay together the capacity to do so, but of course I sympathise if you are on a a ward full of strange people and you don't even have a curtain to hide behind :(

And of course my DP is an angel and is so considerate of noise etc, but there are plenty of people who aren't. But then again there are plenty of women who aren't too!

God I don't know what to think, sorry for the waffling thought stream. I do know in wouldn't cope without him though... This whole argument has made me feel so anxious about giving birth again now :(

I can't even give birth at home/MLU because I'm on consultancy care due to last birth. At least then I'd know I could hae DF around without worrying and (selfishly and massively hypocritically) not having to have other people's partners around - what if theyve changed the curtain policy or I just got lucky last time??

Cherries no, my comment was in response to the "what about the menz" posts, suggesting that men had an equal right to be on the ward at all times and that they would be unable to bond properly without doing so

Cherries "I feel no need to apologise"

You've made a sexist, offensive comment on a website frequented mostly by women. You refuse to apologise. You continue to feel unfairly challenged and ridiculed.

And how on earth was it an incredibly rude and condescending post directed at you, Cherries? It wasn't directed at you at all! It was very clearly directed to the poster upthread called Poppet, not at you at all

There isn't a central NHS policy on partners staying overnight on postnatal wards. That Telegraph article is oversimplifying. Different NHS trusts/boards and hospitals make their own rules, in the same way they do with visiting hours in general. There really, really isn't a central UK-wide NHS policy on this - there isn't even a central UK-wide NHS!

And honestly, Cherries, it is really unfair and dismissive to tell someone she shouldn't have had her curtains open if she's that concerned about privacy. First, because often women on shared wards aren't allowed to have their curtains closed all the time - on the ward I was on, they HAD to be open in the day unless you were being examined. Second, because FFS it's not her fault if she feels uncomfortable breastfeeding with some bloke gawping at her! We should be protected from leering idiots like that on PN wards, even if that leering idiot is someone else's beloved partner.

And if you are concerned about privacy

Followed by a more logical comment underneath expaining what I meant.

Perhaps her incredibly rude and condescending post directed at me got my back up a bit? I feel no need to apologise.

I'm challenging you because you made a comment that is offensive and wrong.
I couldn't care less about what you think about partners on maternity wards, but I do care very much about comments like yours going unchallenged.

Here is your comment again.

"And if you are concerned about privacy why are you breastfeeding with your curtains open so "some wanker" can "stare at your tits"?"

I presume you take it back and apologise to the woman who you accused of leading that lecher on?

Olenna but that pertains to your own partner? If that's how you feel about childbirth then it's your perogative to ask him to go home. It doesn't mean that there shouldn't be optons for women who want/need the father there.

And my point about a PP having a guy see her boobs wasn't about gender/sexual attention at all. The point was it's unfair to justify that particular logic of having privacy invaded when you don't use any measures provided to you to allow privacy, and yet complain of the lack of it still.

But I'm done anyway, I'm sure my hospitals guidelines re partner's being allowed to stay won't change before I give birth, so I'm sure theres no need for me to get anxious and worked up about this whole thing.

It just does make me sad how on this and the other thread people were grouping together to completely dismiss valid concerns of women with different perspectives just because they don't agree with them. Accusing them of want to take away womens rights, of being unsympathetic towards sexual assault victims etc. Very nasty indeed.

Why can't women monopolize a new baby that they have just pushed out of their vagina / had major abdominal surgery to bring into the world? Why can't we celebrate that childbirth is exclusively a female accomplishment? Why do men need to muscle in for their bonding in the hours and days immediately afterwards?

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/mother-tongue/11830210/New-dads-should-always-be-able-to-sleep-overnight-in-maternity-wards.html

This article says that it is a policy that was rolled out? Everything I've read in media refers to it as a policy. And so what - have I gone on repeatedly about it being a policy in the context of it being significant? I don't think so.

It's funny how feeling passionately about something that directly affects me must mean I'm obsessed. And I'm continuing to comment because people have directly asked or argued what I've said? Is that not allowed?

The problem I have is that's a very hypocritical thing to say given the general nature of theservice threads.

I have never on any post relating to this subject said that women who don't want partners on the ward shouldn't be accommodated for. Everyone else who comments saying they don't want partners on the wArd is fine and no one comments, but when I share my own views, which weren't directed at anyone and was simply expresting my opinion, mine is the one that gets challenged and ridiculed because I happen to disagree with the majority?

Cherries I was responding to your comment specifically but my point has nothing to do with gender - no person is responsible for another person's inappropriate sexual behaviour as directed at them.

All logic goes out the window? What next - women shouldn't wear short skirts because they'll attract the wrong sort of attention? A woman who is raped while drunk only had herself to blame? Who are you, Aunt Lydia?!

FYI while there is no set legal definition of a public place, it is normally understood to be a place to which the public has access. A hospital ward is therefore clearly not a public place and no one (other than you because it suits you) thinks it is. Likewise, as you've been told repeatedly by other posters on this thread and others, there is no NHS policy re:partners. Different hospitals take different approaches.

FHS - what's wrong with stating your opinion, giving your experience and accepting that not everyone agrees with you? I've read your comments on other threads on this subject and you seem a bit obsessed with the subject...

Or to put it in a less emotive way,

It is frustrating when people complain about lack of privacy, and use this as a reason to remove people from their partners shortly after going through childbirth, when at the same time even the most basic measures put in place to allow privacy of being ignored.

Right okay.

So all logic goes out the window because she is female and he is male?

If you are in a public place, with multiple other people, are feeling vulnerable and feeling you are exposing yourself, you don't do the best you can to make yourself a private space? You expose your breasts in full view of a hospital ward and at the same time complain about someone seeing your breasts?

The fact that we are different genders does not mean you just get to do exactly as you please and assume the world should fall into place around you.

Re: this comment by Cherries...

"And if you are concerned about privacy why are you breastfeeding with your curtains open so "some wanker" can "stare at your tits"?"

It is NEVER a woman's responsibility to prevent inappropriate male sexual behaviour.

I felt invaded. Partners were not allowed to stay overnight, but for some reason the woman next to me had her partner stay and could just not stop talking ALL night, with all lights on - and at one point he moved himself to an empty bed opposite (!) to watch TV. (Another thing I think should be banned. TVs without headphones.)

There is a difference - I'm not saying (obviously) that they go through the same thing as a woman does to bear a child. I'm saying it's my personal opinion that the support they can offer the woman who has gone through that is invaluable and that they equally deserve to be around the baby at birth.

This is my personal opinion and it's not going to change. The part about them bonding doesn't have any bearing on my opinion of fathers on post natal wards. I can't see why people see it as such a ridiculous notion though, that a father should be equally able to be around his child when they are born... but again it's a separate issue to all the other reasons I feel its important to have partners there.

fathers should be able to be equally involved with the birth of their child.

We're talking about the hours and days immediately post natal. How many fathers are losing plum-sized clots out of their vaginas? Even female co-parents aren't leaking from newly-functional breasts, nor are they systematically shrinking their uterus from watermelon size to apricot size. They aren't recovering from PPH.

This is one of the very few areas where parents are not equal.

And if you are concerned about privacy why are you breastfeeding with your curtains open so "some wanker" can "stare at your tits"?

It's people like you who make these situations so difficult to deal with - people who have one narrow viewpoint based on their own singular experience and use it to justify their sweeping ideology without considering how it affects others.

My fiance is not "some wanker" who stares at other women, and I feel I can confidently say that most women's partners aren't, at least in that situation. And I'm not going to "get over it" just because you say it's the way it shold be.

I'm lucky that he was there to support me through my first labour and birth and was right there with me from the day she was born. And I'm lucky that he'll be there in November when our next one is due.

My experience on the PN ward was far from ideal too and I suck it up because that's what it's like being around other people in a situation where everyone should have genuine privacy with their family.

Which is why I advocate for better emotional support throughout antenatal care, more holistic approaches and encouragement of giving birth either at home or in home from home settings. Because we've accepted a pretty shirty situation as the norm. And we're told we are unrealistic of we think this could change.

And yes I do feel strongly that fathers should be able to be equally involved with the birth of their child. Do I feel the need to apologise for that belief? Nope.

Victoria who is Poppet, are you referring to me?

If it's me you are referring to, then I've already given birth thanks. I've had more than enough experience on a postnatal ward.

I should say though that the statistic aspect of this whole concept is "meh" to me when it comes down to the issue. If it turns out that statistically speaking 70% of women favour partner's staying overnight and only 30% against this idea, that's still 30% of women who are going to be unhappy with their post natal care already.

Which is why I feel that there should be lots of alternatives to just blanket banning partners staying overnight (I've already said a few times over a couple of thread's why an overnight ban is a silly idea for a PN ward anyway given that the patients are uniquely off schedule compared to pretty much all other hospital wards). So that all women in a modern country with a modern healthcare system can be supported equally.

My husband would have slept on the floor if it meant he could stay and help his emotional, bleeding, exhausted, catheterised wife. So if the partner is respectful of the fact they are staying on a shared ward with women who are feeling vulnerable, exhausted, potentially scared and overwhelmed, who are bleeding heavily and trying to get the hang of breastfeeding then absolutely they should stay. If not, they should be shown the door. But how do the already overstretched NHS begin to police this let alone individual midwives and HCAs who are already under too much pressure?

In an ideal world we'd all have our babies in a birthing centre where partners can stay overnight; they have as much right to start bonding with their new baby as much as we do. But as this isn't an option for many women I'm not sure what the answer is.

So yes they should be allowed to stay, but it's not realistic in shared wards.

I hate to sound condescending but I reckon Poppet will change her tune once she's actually had a baby and experienced life on the ward .

I had a EMCS with DS 1. And r two nights I spent in hospital were some of the worst of my life. I would have loved my DH to stay. And he would have been no bother, as he is quiet and considerate. But he's also pretty tall, and snores when knackered. Two things that would not have endeared him to the woman lying 3 feet away from me. Also, she was probably feeling like crap as well and Di not want some random bloke beside her all night.

I also think that you cannot underestimate how vulnerable you feel. You are in pain, bleeding, possibly in shock. You are trapped in a bed with a catheter stuck inside you, your emotions are all over the shop, your temperature spikes so you want to fling off all your bedding, and you just want to be somewhere safe and lovely with your baby. There is something almost primeval about the feeling. You don't want random men around you and your tiny new baby. You just don't.

I had a bloke visit his wife stare at me. I mean really leer at me as I was trying to establish Bfeeding. I fucking hated him as he took that special moment with my new baby and made me feel scared. The fucker.

So no, Poppet. I do not want men on the ward. I don't care that your partner might not like it, or you might miss some
Bonding. Get over it. It's nonsense. I want to be able to feel that when I go to sleep that I don't have to worry about some wanker looking at my tits.

And if there has been a statistical increase in self discharge from post natal wards, how can you assume that it's solely down to men being allowed to stay with there partners, particularly if this is not practiced across the country?

How can you ascertain that any discharges made are not due to awful post natal care, lack of adequate food and water, lack of access to pain relief and basic hygiene practice? All of which are genuine issues with current NHS post natal care.

What I said was, in response to your assumption that I had no concern that women may discharge themselves if partners are permitted to stay overnight on ward's, is that there are equally women who feel the opposite and that experience can equally have them feeling the need to discharge early. You're not basing your counter argument on any evidence is what I'm trying to get it - you're basically taking a "your word against mine" approach and I'm simply saying there is no evidence that women across the country are largely sided against one option vs the other.