How about a campaign where the users get MNHQ staff to take diversity training?

I have noticed that even when a thread isn't about disability certain posters can't wait to make it into one.

I think sometimes when someone mentions disability, that people often assume they are trying to make the thread into a disability thread. That's not it. Those of us that live with disability are bound to mention it at some point - it's a huge part of our lives. It's relevant to our lives, our experiences, and often our anecdotes. Just like other people have other things in their lives that they mention.

Maybe if instead of considering the mention of disability as an attempt to derail a thread, people just considered it an attempt to engage in the conversation, it wouldn't become so adversarial.

That's not worthy of a thread

In your opinion. Some posters felt it was worthy of a thread because the reporting wasn't working, the letters and direct communication wasn't working and they wanted to discuss what to try next. In their opinion, it was worthy of a thread and if you don't like the thread, why not leave?!

I don't disagree with the fact that disabilities shouldn't be ignored or the people suffering from them be marginalised. What I absolutely do disagree with is the ranting

If you have a disability (you haven't said either way), I would be surprised that you don't know how much ranting it usually takes to avoid being marginalised. MNHQ may respond politely on threads but they have ignored and evaded less public attempts at communication.

I don't think you will achieve whatever is your agenda

< Impressed at the thought I might have an agenda. >

MNHQ has no control - other than deletion - of disablist/racists/other rule breaking posts and this they do.

This they quite often don't IMO but in any case they have as much control as they choose to have. The campaigns are a great illustration of how much control they're able to have and willing to take when the issue is considered worthy enough. There are longtime users of the site who would like not to encounter language and attitudes that they find offensive and disablist - this seems to them as if it ought to be a 'worthy cause' and I agree.

What do you actually want them to do?

Others have gone into that at length, both here and in private correspondence with MNHQ (I believe it was ignored).

I've never found that pompously telling organisations what they must and must not do actually works for me

Have you ever been in a position where you have had to fight an organisation to do something it ought to do? It is sometimes necessary and it sometimes works. And there is no need to label someone 'pompous' because they find something unacceptable and want it to change. This is the kind of attitude that is very disabling to anyone putting forward an agenda for change.

Instructing them to attend 'diversity training' is just rude and patronising... as it was intended to be.

Now who is making assumptions? I sincerely disagree with that. Judging from posts by MNHQ, they would actually benefit hugely from said training. Many, many organisations send employees on this kind of thing - we can't all know everything about these issues and fortunately are living in an age where it's necessary to find out.

This thread is nothing more than an ill-disguised, disgusting rant at MNHQ and I'm not going to be party to that.

That is not the least bit pompous...

If you find it so offensive, it's difficult to see why you're still on it.

user14746 You took my sentence out of context. In the context it was delivered, it was laughable whilst also being offensive to me. It wasn't like I said "yeah I'm disabled but I used the word retard all the time". I disagreed with the way a thread was being dealt with by some people. It was a disablist thread with some disgusting comments. In hindsight, people were too wound up and emotional, so I shouldn't have said a word.

It's been suggested a few times, by Jason other posters.

i was once told that even disabled people can be disablist which is laughable

That in itself is not laughable, its patently true.

I take your point crash but is there a reason why people with disabilities should all have the same ideas? I see this in a similar light to feminism. It annoys me that feminists speak 'for women' and I find many of their ideas extreme and ridiculous. But at the end of the day, I'm glad that there is a group of people who put aside time to promote equality for women and I don't think they have to represent 'all women' in order to call sexism when they see it. There is a horrible T-shirt currently on sale for women that actively encourages a rape myth - it's clear that women who buy the T-shirt don't share views that are feminist, but this in no way affects the validity of those who would label the T-shirt offensive and misogynistic.

Taking apartheid as another example, it wasn't necessary for black activists to have 100% consensus among the black community about their aims and vision. They would not have achieved anything if they had waited for that because people will always think and feel differently. Yet they were still right to call discrimination what it was and promote equality for all people, regardless of colour or even desire for an equal society.

As for making assumptions about people, I have never had so many assumptions made about me as when I was in a wheelchair. People thought I would be either very dull and compliant or difficult and adversarial. It was amazing the way I seemed to be known before I'd opened my mouth.

It's knwn about cash. Day watch, as in night watch but in day, is really needed as a first line system until HQ can look at things.

For those who don't think MNHQ delete quickly enough, do you report to the Night Watch? I only knew about it in recent weeks and have found this to be effective way of managing things until the mods are available.

It was laughable because it was a direct accusation at me when I had categorically not been disablist. I was not prepared to join in with the mud slinging and made the mistake of opening my mouth.

slenderisthenight... by the same token, you have absolutely no idea of anybody else's situation either. I don't disagree with the fact that disabilities shouldn't be ignored or the people suffering from them be marginalised. What I absolutely do disagree with is the ranting at MNHQ, very rudely, including name-calling, when they don't immediately leap to attention to attend.

There is a very clear policy on Mumsnet that racist, disablist language is not to be used and, when posts are reported, they are deleted. What some posters have said is that they aren't being deleted quickly enough. That's not worthy of a thread, that is something that should be reported directly to MNHQ as they've asked us to do.

I don't think you will achieve whatever is your agenda because, whether you like/accept it or not, this is a venue. MNHQ has no control - other than deletion - of disablist/racists/other rule breaking posts and this they do. I think they do a tip-top job of it actually although you may disagree.

What do you actually want them to do? They're already deleting posts, they delete many posts. If they're missing them then tell them, they've asked us to do that.

I've never found that pompously telling organisations what they must and must not do actually works for me and I certainly wouldn't expect MNHQ to take the abuse that they have on this thread. Instructing them to attend 'diversity training' is just rude and patronising... as it was intended to be.

This thread is nothing more than an ill-disguised, disgusting rant at MNHQ and I'm not going to be party to that.

I'm Lying or LyingWitch btw.

i was once told that even disabled people can be disablist which is laughable

How is that laughable? One disabled person may use the word moron and think it's acceptable which another doesn't

Disabled people don't all think exactly the same you know

Slender but there are people on here who have disabilities themselves or care for someone who has a disability and we do not all share the same opinions. I was once told that even disabled people can be disablist which is laughable given that I've probably spent more hours writing policies and working with government organisations than they've had hot dinners.

If you don't agree with the vocal minority on MN, some people do make assumptions about you. You did about WaitrosePigeon having had no idea of what her life is like nor the experiences that she has had. I also find the opinions reflected on MN are not reflected in the people I live and work with and I spent a lot of time; both personal and professional in the communities where people have additional needs.

Your 'sniping' is another person's reasonable complaint.

I've never actually divulged what disabilities I have or haven't had experience of, or what my current situation is with regard to disability in my life.

My original gripe was the derailment of a thread a few weeks ago - HQ dealt with it. The fallout has been from that.

I of course agree that Disablist language intentional or not needs to be brought to attention. The posts that are disablist that have been deleted recently that have 'we've deleted this post because we believe it is disablist' is a step in the right direction.

On the other hand it must be incredibly difficult for HQ to please everyone. I do not have the answers but I do wish the sniping would stop.

Also witch if disabled people left every organisation and business that has failed to accommodate them appropriately they would be isolated and marginalised. That's not the way the UK has decided that people with disabilities should live. Thank goodness.

But a lot of failure to accommodate disability arises from ignorance of what it is like to be disabled and the accommodations that are needed and possible. The same could be said about sexism or racism. Hence training is appropriate and no one is asking too much to identify when it's necessary. Who is going to care or notice apart from disabled people themselves? Of course it will be they who make the request - or demand, if they are ignored for long enough.

Seperately to this it does seem like there would be a great business opportunity to set up a specialist forum for those with disabilities and their families - it could have all sorts of expert guest blogs, practical help and support, get sponsorship from charities etc etc

You're right in one sense but in another sense you're absolutely wrong. Disability should be mainstream. All the things you mentioned should be available from 'able bodied' sites.

Mumsnet have a responsibility to create an 'accessible site' (in the sense that it is inclusive and ensures that people with disabilities are not discriminated against, abused or excluded) in the same way that every other public body or business does. Disabled users are completely within their rights to demand that.

You wouldn't think Tesco could shrug their shoulders and say 'start your own supermarket' if, for some reason, their products or premises were found to be offensive or inaccessible.

If you make money out of the public (doesn't matter if the forum is free) you take on various responsibilities that the UK has signed up to in relation to disability, GLTB issues, racism etc. (although less so post-brexit).

What you and others like you should remember witch and waitrose is that it's very hard to be disabled and you simply cannot understand how bloody-minded and confrontational it's necessary to be unless you've lived it. Rights for disabled people may be enshrined in law but the reality is that most businesses and public bodies dodge it until they are publicly challenged about it in front of the able-bodied world, or the Equality Commission. Disillusionment is the first experience of being disabled; since you represent costs, hassle and potential legal issues, disabled people aren't valued customers. They aren't shown the 'nice' side of businesses or establishments. Most organisations aren't as caring and accommodating as their image would suggest and mumsnet is no different, it would seem.

People with disabilities often have to make ten different phone calls and quite literally read the human rights act in order to have an experience that anyone else takes for granted. It is dehumanising and exhausting to fight like that and you're expected to be grateful to an able-bodied society that thinks, deep down, that they're being awfully nice to lift a finger.

The upshot of all this is that people with disabilities may sometimes appear unnecessarily adversarial. You have no idea of the backstory. As someone who was once disabled and am disabled no longer, I've learnt that you can't judge because you just don't know.

This is what I don't get, there have been loads of threads about how dreadful MNHQ are, how they don't care etc. that's fine, you're allowed to think that but then why do people get so defensive when it's suggested that you don't have to use their website?

There's a small number of people with huge egos who think they're right and MNHQ need to act on everything they say. It doesn't matter if other people say they don't agree (even people with similar difficulties) because they know right. I have no idea why they put so much effort into one web forum.

No Dixie, I really didn't think it needed saying... what with us being adults and all. I didn't see those threads but saw this one and couldn't believe my eyes.

Leave or stay, nobody cares and probably wouldn't even notice. Do what's right for you.

user1478350730 Why are you here then?

Or did you de-register, join the forum you're advertising, realise it's nowhere near as busy as Mumsnet and come back here to drum up trade?

Either way I'm having trouble understanding why so many people 'leave' this site and then come right back again.

Surely that means MNet is not that bad?

Unless you are white, middle class and able bodied HQ isn't a nice place to be

Have you even been to HQ, OP?

... I know, you're stuck here... shame there isn't something like FB where you could all meet and chat (because you aren't happy with how it is here). You're free to do that, why don't you if you're so disgusted with MNHQ's ethos? Put your money where your mouth is, so to speak...

Why is it that bunfight threads have hundreds and hundreds of posts, hmm? The 'what's for tea' don't hit those numbers. Say what you like, many posters thrive on friction and fiction - and adore the troll threads. 'Shit or get off the pot' is very applicable here.