How about a campaign where the users get MNHQ staff to take diversity training?

*It's just like certain people are waiting and hoping for someone to say something/anything that they can shout "disablist" at and then the pack arrives and start picking and picking.

The thread then gets completely derailed and the poor op is driven off. It's nothing more than bullying in reality. There's no reasoning or debating*

This is a very accurate summation. I have seen many threads go this way. It's always the same four or five posters who try to take over the thread, and make it about them.

I have no idea why they do it, and what they get out if it. It's baffling,

Because one or two people find something offensive does.not mean something should be deleted.

Exactly.

One person's opinion is not more valid than another person's opinion

This is very true and something that a few people seem to forget whilst they are demanding and making personal attacks on MNHQ staff.

why do people persist in the 'don't like it, fuck off' frame of mind?

Its perfectly fine to use a site, be content with the majority of it, yet have an issue with one small aspect of it, and want that one thing to be dealt with.

Why do people feel that us trying to tackle the ingrained disablism means we hate the site and all it involves?

I'm not often on threads that discuss disabilities (although I think what I'm about to say applies to all contentious subjects).

It's seems to me that there are two issues.

1. Where someone comes onto a board and posts something that is blatantly disablist and is just being a goady fucker - easy to spot, easy to delete.

1. The other scenario tends to go that someone posts something. One or two posters will take massive umbrage at what has been said and go into attack mode, attacking anyone who does not agree that it is offensive, and attacking MNHQ for not deleting immediately. Meanwhile more and more people come on thread to explain why it is not offensive and thread is derailed into a bunfight.

Because one or two people find something offensive does.not mean something should be deleted. The world is not an offence free zone. In general I think that if majority opinion is that something isn't an ism or hate attack than it should be allowed to stand. One person's opinion is not more valid than another person's opinion.

I genuinely don't understand why people think they have a sense of ownership over it (to go as far as direct what training they think staff should get) yet somehow also hate it and are angered by it. Yes there are things that I object to on here but I would never think to demand this or that from MNHQ. I can delete my account at any time. It would have no impact for MN at all.

I agree with this.
If you don't like the site, don't use it. MN don't owe us anything. I don't always agree with their decisions, but I realize that I'm guest, same as we all are and its a bit of a cheek to start laying down the law and suggest they go on training courses, just to fit in with how you think they should be running things.
If you feel so strongly about things, why not start your own site? You seem to think it's really easy.

The anti-trans voices are heard loud and clear. I agree it wasn't needed here.

lol

Prawn - really?
There aren't enough threads on MN to talk about the evils of trans people, so you thought you would bring it to this one too?

"Disabilism is bad (one sentence),but LET ME TALK ALL ABOUT MY BIG ISSUE (four big paragraphs)!!!!!".

I'm not on any of the boards where disablism may or may not occur. My experience of MN is that HQ is usually considered and civilized. I'm sorry to hear that some MNetters aren't happy with how the site's run. I might hang out on relevant threads and see what I see.

The area I am familiar with is Feminist discussions and here I think MNHQ excels. Trans rights activists are trying to silence women all over the internet, and also in person, with feminist icons being no platformed and conferences, like the recent NSPCC debate on trans children, being cancelled. I myself have been banned from a number of supposedly feminist sites for the unforgivable crime of noticing that human beings can't change sex.

Women who dissent from the TRA agenda have very few spaces in which we can debate and record the damage being done to our interests. Changes in criteria for female athletes, males being allowed in female-only spaces, including rapists insisting they must be housed in a women's prison. The issues are many and they matter. The issue of trans children is probably the most important.

By allowing free debate MNHQ is sticking its head above the parapet. The recent Mermaids controversy might have scared a lesser group, but HQ stands firm. Parents of trans kids are telling us that MN is one of the only places they can explore their doubts. Several ex members of Mermaids have posted on MN about how the charity promotes quick and unquestioning transition. It's a dangerous ideology.

I have much admiration for MNHQ. They let women speak out on an issue most forums delete without debate. I have hope that the regressive nature of trans ideology is starting to creep through. Trans issues are spreading beyond the Feminist boards. Every week brings a new story, and more women are becoming aware of the issues. Hurray for MNHQ I say.

milk Thank you - there are nine of them!

I feel the option for another supportive voice should be there, but not in such a way as to overrule the disabled person's voice. Does that make sense and seem consistent?

What it seems to boil down to mostly is someone who has the knowledge at the fingertips confirming adjustments that would be considered reasonable and necessary, rather than the employee or customer having to do so awkwardly. There should be a lot more to it of course.

That's perfectly understandable, AmyGMumsnet.

What some posters have said is that they aren't being deleted quickly enough. That's not worthy of a thread, that is something that should be reported directly to MNHQ as they've asked us to do.

There have been so many threads on MNHQ moderation and if MN should have 24 moderation. There has usually been a broad range of opinions, but no one has ever said "How dare you have this conversation!", never and I find it telling that people are having this response with regards to disabilism.

As a long term poster, I have noticed a rise in bigotry across MN, particularly with regards to disabilism and racism and I think this bigotry may well spread into areas more people notice.

Then we'll probably see more threads like this, but I doubt they'll be met with as much hostility.

slender - Firstly, thank you for responding.

Your response seems to change what was in your original post though. Originally you seemed to be saying that employing people with disabilities isn't good enough and that policies & training must exist instead because individual people shouldn't have to explain what will help. That is what I thought disablist, not that the policies and training exist.

But good luck with your kittens. Pop over to The Litter Tray and post some photos

Thank you AmyG for very eloquently explaining why it was uncomfortable to read. I think it does go a long way why you explain your decisions and it's helpful that you clarified. :)

Amy my two at 20:19:27 & 20:20:10 refrence posts which refrence said employee, it might be worth deleting those two too.

I'm sure plenty of men thought women wanted the vote just to be difficult and get at them too navy.

You may not agree that there is discrimination but you're in no position to decide how genuine people like myself are.