How about a campaign where the users get MNHQ staff to take diversity training?

Ugh, my post makes bugger all sense. Tired.

I just wanted to say, Dixie, I totally got where you were coming from there.

But on the other hand, I'm sure it is incredibly stressful working in a job where psychical assault happens often.

I would hate to think people wouldn't be able to post about their own stresses on here in case they are accused to disablism.

I think that's why it's important to look at the intent of someone's posts.

It's tricky.

I'm not doing that at all saucery. I'm referring to a decision made by MNHQ, not any employee. I chose to do so because a point was made about that decision that has relevance for the discussion. It's clear you aren't interested in any discussion so I suggest you ignore it, since you don't like it and feel that's how people should respond to comments they don't like.

Why are you determined to keep bringing specific MN employees into the discussion, slender? It has been made perfectly clear MNHQ do not wish you to do that.

MNHQ have a pretty poor record on being sensitive to disability. I don't think that diversity training would help, though. It's a bit like the old joke about lightbulbs: they don't change unless they want to.

To be fair to Dixie there was a post from a teacher on that thread that appeared to upset people more than the OP.

I have a 3 year with ASD who acts out psychically and there is no way of knowing whether or not this is something which will get worse as he gets older or not.

I don't care who you are, no one like the thought of someone speaking badly about their children and that could be one of our kids one day.

I think AmyG post raises a good question, while they believe the question was raised in good faith, on an individual level it could be very upsetting so has been deleted.That could be the case with quite a few things that are left standing because its believed they arnt disablist. I think sometimes things should be deleted on that basis

Yes, it's all on an individual level when we are talking about people's feelings. Perhaps mumsnet needs to start thinking on an individual level a bit more. They clearly meant well but it was misguided and unprofessional to bring a specific disabled employee into any general discussion about disability in the first place. Perhaps they are viewing general 'debate' about disability without realising that it could apply to people in a very specific way, whereupon the potential for hurt and offence should be viewed completely differently.

The problem I have with disability groups offering advice is that there is an enormous range of opinions. For example, the Deaf community do not all consider themselves as having a disability, neither do some people on the Autistic Spectrum. Mental health adult advocacy groups, for example, work very differently to groups for parents of children with physical disabilities.

That's a very interesting point. I think you would be throwing out the baby with the bath water for sure if you're suggesting that all voices for disabled people are silenced because they're not a monologue. It's a complex issue with many different presentations. It would be worrying if they all said the same thing. However there are large areas of overlap in terms of how to approach disability and adjustment (and what bodies like the equality commission expect to see) that would be helpful. Even the differences in how to treat disability would be helpful and necessary for a business with many disabled clients to know about.

I genuinely don't understand why people think they have a sense of ownership over it (to go as far as direct what training they think staff should get) yet somehow also hate it and are angered by it. Yes there are things that I object to on here but I would never think to demand this or that from MNHQ. I can delete my account at any time. It would have no impact for MN at all.

With respect, that is disablist. It's fine not to choose a product because you don't like it. It's not fine to feel unable to participate because you are excluded, can't access it or because there is content that could reasonably be found offensive to your situation. Unfortunately, many people with disabilities would be isolated and deprived if they 'just' left every time they found something inaccessible or unworkable in some other way as a consequence of their disabilities. It's also not Allowed because of various pledges the UK has made about how people with disabilities are to be treated in our society. I did try to explain this earlier but complaints were made - complex, informative points not being as pithy as insults

We all have our own shit to deal with.

Yes we certainly do.

As usual DN, you are massively projecting. Everything isin't about you and your cirmcumstamces. We all have our own shit to deal with.

The fact is the overwhelming majority of posters on that thread did not want to live in close proximity to young adults with behavioural problems.

you cannot force people to think the way you want them to. . You are wasting your time and energy.

It's upsetting when someone says they work with children with disabilities and wouldn't want to live next door to them. Because it perpetuates the belief that disability is a bad thing and disabled people are undesirables and to think people with those views are working with your children is deeply worrying.

Would you like to leave your children with someone who has stated that they don't want to spend time with people like them?

That post was made by someone who works with children who have SN on thread and was what a lot of people objected to.

I didn't even post on the thread until after that post. Let alone name call or anything like it.

I may be abrupt and forthright when faced with the umpteenth goady post in a weekend but I've had very few deletions for anything other than quoting deleted posts.

No I read that thread. Nobody was saying they didn't want to live next door to a 3 y/o with SN. Some people were saying they didn't want to live next door to a hostel for homeless 16-24 y/o with behavioural issues.

Apparently this wasn't OK because some of the young people might have had disabilities.

See that's what is strange.
I've repeatedly said that I don't speak for all disabled people. I'm pretty sure Dixie and others don't either.

We do present a different view that deserves to be heard. Those that disagree are heard all the time.

Yet people trying to silence these posters say that we do.

I know I'm not the only one who has the views I do, I don't speak for all disabled people, some share the majority view and are well supported and some share my views so what's the problem with a different view being given?

Prawn made what, 2 posts? I think you are being unfair, IPity.

That would be interesting - MNHQ do Diversity Training to learn about tackling disablism "correctly", and in the process discover that the discussions on Trans issues are crossing the line as much (if not more) and have to shut those down, removing one of the few places women have left to discuss these things. All in the name of "Diversity and Inclusion".

Right. So by that argument, all prejudice can be tolerated on MN, just so it doesn't halt the endless, tedious trans threads.

And no, this thread is not about trans issues and for someone to come on here, give the merest shoulder shrug at disabilism and then go on at length about their pet topic, is at least, incredibly rude and dismissive.

Well Alice the real crux of the matter is that very few people agree on what is Disablist,- least of all disabled people themselves.

In fact there have been many instances of disabled people being shouted down because they fail to agree with a few posters who seem to have appointed themselves spokespeople for every disabled person on Mumsnet.
A recent example of this was the thread about a poster asking advice about moving beside a hostel for young people with behavioural difficulties.

The overwhelming majority of posters advised her not to for all sorts of reasons, including those who had similar previous exoerience of living close to similar set ups.
Also, tellingly posters who had worked in those settings said they would not want to live so close.

Cue the usual cohort of posters coming on to the thread shouting Disabilsm, and totally derailing the thread, which of course was always their intention.

This is just one recent example, but there are many more..

But they would have a Certificamut!

That would be interesting - MNHQ do Diversity Training to learn about tackling disablism "correctly", and in the process discover that the discussions on Trans issues are crossing the line as much (if not more) and have to shut those down, removing one of the few places women have left to discuss these things. All in the name of "Diversity and Inclusion".

X-post Nerr

I can see how there could be a temporary delay to respond when a post is reported and falls into that grey area of being offensive to some but completely acceptable to others.
But there have been some utter fucking corkers of obvious disabilism left to stand lately for hours, days or even indefinitely, under the guise of 'educating' the poster.