How about a campaign where the users get MNHQ staff to take diversity training?

Well, likewise I'm afraid.

Slender your reply says much about you and none of it good.

I'm sorry that you and your son have so many challenges to face.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think you are listing your disabled son's complex needs in an act of sarcasm. Distasteful.

I'm surprised I had to explain that. But I did so in good faith.

Slender, thank you for that well thought out response. I found it very interesting and not just because I'm mum to a 25 year old young man who is severely autistic, has Tourette's, frontal lobe epilepsy, paranoia and dillusions.

Thank you

oh dear

No I don't think you do get it where disablist language is concerned. I didn't get it before experiencing life with a disability.

If disabled people 'just left' every establishment that offended or excluded them (or obligingly accepted that there was no way to participate on equal terms) they would be left in an incredibly narrow existence. Unless you've lived it you have no idea.

Fortunately, the UK has (for now) taken the stance that disabled people shouldn't have to fight for an even playing field. There are guidelines and standards imposed on businesses and public establishments to ensure that disabled people can get in the door, use the facilities and are not treated in a manner that excludes them or is derogatory.

That is no more than we expect as women, as black people, as breast feeding mothers etc. No one would suggest a woman or a black person go eat their lunch somewhere else if they didn't like the offensive language. They would acknowledge that the establishment had a responsibility to ensure standards were met so that clients weren't offended. Equally, no one would suggest that a breast feeding mother should shrug her shoulders and go somewhere else if she is at the swimming pool and people start talking loudly and meaningfully about how disgusting it is that she's breast feeding etc. We have a problem with that and we should have a problem with disablism wherever we find it.

*My post isn't just about this issue - it's the prevailing attitude on here that MNHQ should do this or that. Should ban certain words (not racist or disablist words), should take a particular stance politically in regards to e.g trans issues. That they should stop the DM using threads. The demands that they should comment on this or that thread and the accusations thrown around when they don't.

I'm not being difficult or goady. I know there are issues on this site but it's a massive site which must be difficult to run and keep everyone happy. And no-one has to be here. It's an anonymous, free site.

I genuinely don't understand why people think they have a sense of ownership over it (to go as far as direct what training they think staff should get) yet somehow also hate it and are angered by it. Yes there are things that I object to on here but I would never think to demand this or that from MNHQ. I can delete my account at any time. It would have no impact for MN at all.

I appreciate that I might be on my own here but I really don't get it*

I agree with you.

It was me who got upset on the hostel thread and I explained why on the actual thread (or it may have been on another of the threads) The posts about the vulnerable children in that teachers care should have been deleted but weren't as far as I know.

I do think language aside, there are issues surrounding lack of understanding regarding confidentiality and safeguarding where vulnerable people are concerned. They can't help being vulnerable and its our job as a society to make sure they are protected.

In fact there have been many instances of disabled people being shouted down because they fail to agree with a few posters who seem to have appointed themselves spokespeople for every disabled person on Mumsnet.

Yes - or rather, they've decided THEIR views on what is disablist are the right views, and if other disabled people disagree they are disablist. These are the same people who think MNHQ are wrong about reported posts, rather than disagree about them being disablist.

I'm glad MNHQ aren't giving in to the shouting.

Could someone do me a massive favour?

report my post at Sun 06-Nov-16 12:11:57, I reported it myself yesterday but it's doesn't seem to have been read.

It's nothing earth shattering, it's just two of my posts refrencing The Mumsnet staff members have been missed when MNBHQ swept through the board, so they are left up.

I think people are too quick to shout Goady Fucker. New posters are accused of posting to cause trouble when, it seems to me, that often just isn't the case. They maybe haven't chosen their words very well but if they are new to MN they don't know how quick to take offence some people are.

They get jumped on from a great height and the thread derailed before it even starts, sometimes. Accusations of disablism are thrown where no offence was intended. Posters are accused of trying to start a bun fight when what they want is a bit of advice or support. Nit picking at the language used by posters who (it's apparent to me) may have LDs themselves is in itself disablist, frankly.

Not every member has the advantage of a good education and the gift of eloquence.

And why should society operate on a policy of pleasing the group and investing all worth in the community but none in the feelings and perceptions of the individual? I can see no logical or moral rationale for that kind of thinking.

As an aside there have been some very interesting threads about paedophilia on this site

Oh please, as if there has been, to quote BBA any pro paedo posting, that's been allowed to stand on here.

Besides which, as a privately-owned website, the concept of a "right to debate" doesn't apply.

especially when they are parents

For your analogy to work or have a possible theoretical context, there would have to be a considerable number of people holding a view that would be offensive to a group of people on the site who are traditionally seen as marginalised. So what about if mumsnet's white supremacist's contingent grew quite quickly and wanted to defend the validity of their remarks, which they made on the site to other members? Or radical islamists? Or what about a paedophile group developing on mumsnet and wanting to defend its right to be here (after all, you don't have to be a parent) and its right to talk about life as they saw it?

Would there ever come a point when you would say, 'Actually, we need to stand for something and something we stand for is the protection of vulnerable and minority groups, especially when they parents, to the point that we cannot allow them to be abused and excluded on this site'.

Or do you think anyone can really say anything they like without being guilty of causing offence, provided they do so civilly, and others just have to lump it?

Everything offensive to remain?

Yes, I do. People have a right to express their opinions. Others have a right to be offended by those opinions. Both have a right to civilly debate those opinions. As an aside there have been some very interesting threads about paedophilia on this site

Dixie The problem with not in the spirit of the site is that is still censoring opinion based on MNHQs views of what should be deleted, however, that is MNHQs decision to take.

In the context of this site MNHQ should decide what is appropriate for this site, and not their posters.

Itsall do you agree with that rule for sexism, ageism, racism, homophobia and xenophobia too?

What about pro paedo posting?

Everything offensive to remain?

Again you do realise that people with disabilities are individuals, they don't all think.the same

Which is why offensiveness should not be deleted. Because something is offensive to one does not mean it is offensive to all (deliberate personal attacks excluded)

I have to agree that the post from that teacher was unpleasant. I disagree that the whole topic was disablist though. My DP is a teacher at a special needs school and he wouldn't dream of saying such a thing.

I get that when you have a stressful job you need a break from it in real life. However, I can't see how having a child with SN next door is a problem unless they ask you to babysit or write reports for them!