To Ask That MNHQ Treat ALL Posts/Posters/Campaigns Seeking To Derail & Hunt Out Any Form Of Bigotry, As They Do Troll Hunters

I am really not sure that you can suggest that if people feel they are being treated poorly they should not be allowed to talk about it.

I think that works both ways. If I think my child is being treated poorly at school I should be allowed to discuss it and ask questions without being told that I'm being disablist because the other child in the equation might have SEN.

Looking at the comparison to other bigotry...

If you have regular phone contact with someone and you turn to your colleague and say "I really don't like X", what would you think if that colleague said "That's racist! For all you know X might be from a different ethnic origin!"

Probably another shit analogy, but there you go.

The problem is that simply deserving to be heard doesn't make people listen. Challenging peoples world views in a hostile manner is just likely to make them close their ears. Which is exactly what has happened here, and in a lot of places, about a lot of issues. Nobody is listening. Shouting louder doesn't help.

And I say this as a disabled person, if it matters.

I think this isn't the best way to make the situation better.

I am really not sure that you can suggest that if people feel they are being treated poorly they should not be allowed to talk about it.

It's also kind of othering. I see disablism on here. Sometimes I comment, other times I don't. I see over reactions and I see defensiveness. I post on lots of different issues and I'm neither hysterical nor rude.

Is the plan that I'm not allowed to point out if I am irritated because other posters dealing with disability are seen as over reacting. Isn't that a pretty worrying road to head down?
If I think someone is expressing racist views I say so because I dislike racist views being left unchallenged. I'm going to find it difficult if I can post that I think someone is being racist but I can't respond if someone is being disablist.

Bishop I can understand that it's very wearing, but you appear to be taking your frustration out on posters who haven't been causing you ten years of pain.

Imagine yourself as a customer... you go in to a shop and ask the sales assistant a question and they tear you a new one because they've been answering questions all day and they're sick of it. That's not your fault though... but you get a bollocking anyway... iyswim?

It's a fairly shit analogy I know, but I can't think of anything else right now.

I totally get that explaining the same stuff over and over gets wearing.

I'm beyond bored of pointing out insidious sexism (mainly on Mil or OW threads) but if I'm going to make the charge 'oi, that's sexist' then I have to say why.

Otherwise it's like being at school 'if you don't know then I'm not going to tell you' etc.

Say it by all means, but tell me why.

Also are those in favour of this thread also supportive of allowing sexism, racism, ageism etc to stand unchallenged too? As the title refers to all forms of bigotry.

Is the aim a 'freedom of speech' board with no consideration to protected groups?

Just a heads up - the Daily Mail comments is a good place for what you seek if so.

I've done that, Milk, and still posters here want me to shut up. The only deletion of mine I've seen was me quoting a deleted post to remind HQ of something.

Try ten years of belittling and then not be abrupt and to the point.

I'm staying within guidelines and reporting yet still being told my opinion is somehow offensive.

That's a balanced and well thought out post op
Thank you

No it's not about sitting down in a corner and shutting up. It's about following talk guidelines, reporting where you feel it's necessary and accepting the website owners decision.

As I said before - if people don't like how the website is run they are free to leave, if they think the law has been broken they should make an official complaint.

It has become like troll hunting where whole threads get completely derailed.

*This isn't going to go well tbh

The problem is, sometimes there is disabilism when it isn't obvious. I don't mind it being pointed out

I don't appreciate being jumped on and accused of being disabilist.

That is the difference*

Everything Sou said sums it up perfectly for me.

The only thing that needs to change, is the sniping.

Its ok to say ' i think this attitude is disablist because XYZ"

and its ok to respond "I don't agree with you"

What isn't ok is the putting words into peoples mouths, being rude, getting aggressive/shouty and name calling.

People need to learn to agree to disagree and stop turning things into bunfights.

(And I am someone that was very riled and upset by the reaction of certain posters on previous threads, but, trying to remain 'impartial' or 'level headed', this is what I would suggest.)

This thread won't last but I agree with you.

I gave up on the Sally Phillips thread. I was repeatedly accused of disablism, because of my views on womens rights to termination.

I can't argue it. If I argue with the parents of children with disabilities I will look like an almighty prick so I just left the thread.

It pissed me off.

I think HQ just needs to clear up the boundaries, tie up the loose ends.

Otherwise, it's not clear to everybody What is and isn't acceptable

That way, we all know what is expected of ourselves, and if someone breaks said rules, they will have their comments removed. As long as we all know where we stand, there will be no ambiguity, there will be no 'accusing' or 'hunting'... It will be dealt with the same way as any other racist/sexist/etc comment is treated on mumsnet.

So in other words you just want everyone to sit down, shut up and sit in the corner. Kind of like Society has always expected us to do, because they don't understand, we make them uncomfortable and they don't like to have their comfy little ablist world view challenged.

I call Status Quo Warrior on this, i really do.

“One of the great liabilities of history is that all too many people fail to remain awake through great periods of social change. Every society has its protectors of status quo and its fraternities of the indifferent who are notorious for sleeping through revolutions. Today, our very survival depends on our ability to stay awake, to adjust to new ideas, to remain vigilant and to face the challenge of change.”
― Martin Luther King Jr.

We are allowed to speak up for ourselves.
We are allowed to ask people to stop and think about their world view.
We are allowed to have our voices heard.

So once again we're back to disabled people should be meek and mild? I've not name called. I've pointed out where the disablism lies and how that affects the people involved. As for he housing thread I wasn't on it but will say I felt initially it wasn't disablist but what concerned me was professionals posting on thread saying they wouldn't live next door to a disabled person thus perpetuating the disabled = bad rhetoric.

Bishop I think posters suggested calling the police because the child was punched in the face which is physical assault.
My child was assaulted at school,I called the police,it's what needs to be done in situations where someone has been assaulted isn't it ?

So, people should respect bigots?!

I agree with ginger that it's not one set of people causing the arguments. I have no issue with people calmly point things out. I did get a bit upset with a thread recently where that didn't happen to me, and I was told straight away that my own personal experience wasn't personal enough so I wasn't qualified to comment. That really pissed me off.

The problem at the moment Bishop is not that what you are saying is causing discomfort... it's that how you are going about it is not making people question their thoughts, it's making people think "oh fuck off then".

That's a fair point too GingerIvy

The respect has to go both ways

This thread title, it's suggesting we do not highlight bigotry?? What??!