Disablism

Maddy you made the point far better than I ever could. Surely the disablist comments can be flagged up and deleted rather than whole threads disappearing? And I thought personal attacks were against talk guidelines, so surely they should go too?

I've plenty of grips thanks (if that was aimed at me)

I don't think it's about being 'scared' to post Pagwatch, not as such anyway.

People generally speaking don't want to sully their good MN name so to speak, if they are genuine. They don't want accusations of troll, goady fucker and their ilk to follow them round the boards.

Combined with this, most people genuinely don't wish to cause offence or distress (again if they are genuine) and so err on the side of caution.

Generally speaking I often think where something is posted is a good signifier. The thread about the OPs daughter was in primary education. I'm sorry it upset people but I also feel it was a reasonable question for someone to ask. In AIBU it might have had more of a 'GF' tone to it.

Furthermore, it could be argued that by dismissing people's worries and anxieties about posting that in itself is dismissive to a group of people. I can quite understand why people want to avoid the topic as it seems difficult to mention at all without causing offence to somebody, somewhere.

With all that being said, I don't like to think of people being upset. So I am sorry people have been.

I don't have an issue with uncomfortable questions. It's the twats that get pedantic and attempt to derail the thread by focusing on jumping with both feet on every post made once you've mentioned disability in an obvious attempt to get you to STFU that frustrates me. It's like they're not intelligent enough to have a decent response, so feel the need to bullshit their way out of the uncomfortable feelings the discussion brings up. Because then you reach the point that no matter what you post, they're going to derail things more and more, while accusing you of being the aggressive one.

I definitely reach a point in some threads where I stop because my head says "FFS life's too short to deal with this level of stupidity."

i will hold my hand up, i used to feel that way about someone who has de-regged.

She annoyed me, i hated seeing her turn on on threads because she went on like she was the only ever parent of a disabled child and the only person who's opinions mattered.

I didn't bother posting, then i thought, fuck it and posted but got into a LOT of slanging matches with her. Eventually i started just ignoring her and getting on with my own thoughts.

Funnily enough, because (most of the time ) i can speak quite eloquently and without doing my best impression of a harpy, people started to listen.

If you fear posting, then you will get lost. You have as much right to speak up and be heard as everyone else.

Although it would be nice if some people would allow you to have an opinion without making out like you're belittling their experiences...

I think we are trying to make some progress actually.

It's a joke.

It's not a bunfight.

We already hear pretty often from MNers who say that they're very anxious about posting on this issue (some are parents of disabled children themselves)
I got absolutely flamed for making a reasonable point about autism (DS1 is diagnosed and DS2 is being assessed) and how a particular poster was screaming disablism when there (for once) wasn't any. Literally left nameless by this woman who got really personal to the point that I had to come off MN for a few days to let my anxiety levels go back to normal. I hate disablism, in every form, it's insidious and vile and should be challenged. But when I dared to disagree I was personally attacked for hours and anyone who agreed with me was too. No help from MNHQ despite repeated requests. That put me off posting to be honest because I had a panic attack and a really shit day after the last time.

Mistress may I suggest you go back to the start, RTFT, read all my posts, you'll get to know me a bit better.
Mmsyninalsonsuggedtbyoy consider the issue, reflect and look at the posts and look to see who is being the most aggressive?

Bishop my auticorrect is out of control! It's given many people many laughs over theatres. In fact I'm know as McJingles because auticorrect randomly inserted that Into one post,

mistress Yes that was said on one of the deleted threads.

Oh for goodness sake.
Stop being utter ninnys
If you are not being a twat then someone else being irked on MN shouldn't make you scared to post.
And if there is disablism then one or two posters bring aggressive or vociferous does not negate that.
Or are we all such delicate flowers that one poster being rude means that we can't possibly consider our own attitudes?
Personally I can cope with considering a valid, if uncomfortable, view even if delivered caustically.
Get a fucking grip.

I believe you of course I'm just shocked.

^I think I should be able to also have a voice without being compared to a Turkey voting for Christmas"

Did someone really say that?

No I am focusing on the fact this this is turning into a bloody joke.

There are parents of disabled children/disbaled people/carers who don't feel like they can post and get much needed support incase someone comes along, twists what they say and turns the thread into a bun fight.

I would have never believed that could be a possibility on MN until this month.

I agree with you Mistress,
I can't believe some of what I've read & as a disabled person & parent of a child with Autism I think I should be able to also have a voice without being compared to a Turkey voting for Christmas .

It's got the stage I don't feel comfortable voicing my opinion,disagreeing or tbh saying anything at all on recent threads due to how things go.
How does that help anyone if people are scared to voice opinions ?

I think this getting us nowhere,we aren't just disabled people,we are people first and foremost & we all have different opinions wether disabled or not but for me,my opinion is I don't agree with what's being said on these threads,it's not helping anyone,if anything it's making things worse.

I don't know what the solution is but I know it's not attacking people who have a different opinion or scapegoating whoever has had the misfortune to post the MNHQ reply.

Now. I am a poster who challenge disablism and you made a generic statement that ousted who do that are looking for a fight. So hat include me.
Do you see that you are focusing on rowing and challenging and pa's but not the actual issue that this thread is about?

Your assumption that it was to you personally, your odd challenge as to who knows more about disablism; not to mention the accusation of being disablist for no reason (by the way HQ would that be considered as a PA?) make me feel as if you are spoiling for a fight.

I will say it again, I don't know who you are but you have decided I have something personally against you.

So it would be okay to say I don't want my child to sit next to Z because he uses naughty words, as use of naughty words is a behaviour, disregarding the fact that Z has tourettes?

Are you suggesting that if you complain of the behaviour and we conveniently brush disability under the carpet and not mention it that its not disabilist - because we wouldn't want to be seen as disabilist.

i know, keeping me chuckling away there.. but at least she's not a Ducking Hitch right ;)

Candy why do you think my first post was aimed at you?

It wasn't.

Head - desk.

Seriously. I give up..

Mistress you've just accused me of spooling for a fight again.

Were civil right campaigners spiking for a fight?
Were suffragettes spooking for a fight?

Why is it ok to make an assumption that if. Pop up and say there's a issue with this post, and it's about disability, I'm spooling for a fight?

Is this assumption made of others?

Am I saying you are spoiling for a fight? No, I am showing you reflect.

I am explaining the issue.

There is a disparity.

Stop blaming me or any other person who draws attention to disablism

You've already explained you don't see it. This because it's indirect or covert.

I can see it.

I've explained more than once now what it is.

Rather than supporting the issue, you are blaming us for looking for a fight. That's an inaccurate negative assumption in its self.

That's why we can't make progress.

We play nice. We are polite. We articulate. We explain.

Yet you believe we are spoiling for a fight, and perpetuate this negative characterisation.

How can we ever make progress?

If you keep refusing to see this point, then maybe it is you who are spoiling for a fight.

Stop. Reflect. Consider for a moment that we have a point. Maybe even challenge your own assumption. Maybe even admit you were inadvertently prejudiced.

Nothing will change until the posters do his.

We already get it.

In itself it isn't a difficult concept Ginger but the point is that the parent isn't advocating for the class as a whole but their child.

Just as you do for yours. You aren't taking a stand against NT children if you requests your child is moved away from one that winds them up.

If someone is saying 'I want my child moved away because of this child's disability' that's awful but if they are saying 'I want them moved away because of the child's behaviour' then that's different.

Of course, I fully recognise there are disabilities that cause certain behaviours and that's where it's a murky water but on the whole, it's generally speaking better to recognise behaviour as part of an individual persons - behaviour is part of all our language, including those without disabilities.

We can help to sow seeds but attitudes will not change overnight From Rebecca's post last night on the supported housing thread. I completely agree with the sentiment.

However, it doesn't feel like MNHQ are behind the sowing seeds. It feels rather like you'd rather we all just shut up and are feeding the seeds to the birds.

It is the subtlety of disabilism that is so entrenched that causes the problems people complain about.

Which seeds is MNHQ going to help nurture?

We're floundering, we're a minority and we're not all on best form through frustration.

Many are trying to educate and inform. Keep debate and conversation going. Sometimes a line gets crossed but as a minority we need the odd break the odd MNHQ backed statement.

Something along the lines 'Maybe some of the issues raised like house prices dropping is a symptom of our lack of inclusiveness for all members of our society - see our guest post here as to how some minority elements of society are being yet further marginalised'.