Disablism

Gruffalo, if i use the latest thread, the co-worker one.

It was disablist because she was intimating the issue was the co-worker, and that he was using his disabled child to 'take the piss'. Citing not signing in from home, being late, extended breaks...etc as 'evidence' for his piss-taking

In that instance, i made a couple of posts about some of the realities of being a parent/carer and how not only will his home/work balance be difficult with adjustments, but that being a parent/carer also impacts on mental health and his behaviour could also be symptomatic of that.

If she'd asked how to tackle managements handling, which as we pointed out, was the real problem, it wouldn't have been disablist. By making a legally defended characteristic (his parent/carer status and his dd's disability) the focus of her post, she was being disablist.

Its why the idea of replacing disablism with racism works, because its about using that protected characteristic to vilify someone.

Thank you for this thread bishop. I tried to follow the old thread after the SP documentary threads. Just quietly lurking.

There has been a series of informative posts. No smarminess. If you want to get ordinal please by all means start your own thread.
Let's keep the informative and solutions based ideas going.

It not about pisters defending themselves. No one is unde attack.
We are addressing disablism.

If a pat is racist or sexist or any other ism, and it was discussed, why would this be defended?

What has occurred is that when posters defend themselves, they have made further disablist remarks. They haven't realised they've done that because try aren't coming firm a disability based perspective.

When that has been pointed out, it descends into personal attack and bun fights.

This is an opportunity to learn.

Ask:
why do people with disabilities/people impacted by disability think what I have said is disablist?

Could I have phrased it differently or explained it differently?

Did I make assumptions that I do t actually know to be true?

Is what I said actually what the law says?

Could what I said be perceived as hurtful or offensive?

Please rest assured we are a hardy, resilient lot (through necessity) and not over sensitive delicate little flowers choosing to take offence.

What we are, are people who face disadvantage in every single aspect of life, day in, day out, and it's exhausting. And we are trying to make things better.

Akire, I think for some people they find it difficult to understand because their experience of disability or illness is temporary and a temporary situation tends to be dealt with as best as it can be at the time but a life long condition the best outcomes require change, practical, physical, emotional.

Not being ironic.or snide. FWIW.

Same shit different day.

I'm going now as DD is due in any minute and I don't want this thread deleted for bunfighting because people decide to come and argue on it.

Good luck peoples.

fanjo
in a more snide way. Who knows.

Wow, the irony.

Think part problem is that it's very much a new -ism so to speak in relative terms. Most people never heard of it because social attitudes are way they are. I have been disabled for 10years and although I of course experience hands on Disablism some of finer points I really have to think about.

It's only when you hear someone else explain it you really get it, it's because it's all social conditional or it's covered up as they don't know better, only being nice, lack of experience etc. This of course applies to everyone but feel if you try explain it to non disabled people or where disabled bubble never reaches then it's taken as personal insult and they will not budge or think mmmm well yes could see maybe why you might feel that.

Guess we all know we in for long haul you can only change few things very slowly. think last few years there is more general expectation from Disabled people to hurry things up and frustration at why things are not better.

You see channel 4 do yet another special report on jobs for disabled people or lack transport or lack shop or leisure access and some MP will come on and tell us yes we waiting for this report or that. And oh how awful but we can't expect trains/shops/restaurants/taxi/toilets to be sorted over night. Yet audience are just seeing nothing major has happened in last 10years really to improve things. We are just told to be patient and society will catch up.

But it's not! Waiting for society to make "reasonable adjustments" 21 years after law has passed has done diddle squat for large amount of places. Can't see anything happen in next 10 either! So can see why it's "little" comments and hurtful things that we all try really hard to battle against because in part they are only battles where we can possible make differences. Then it's not heard, we feel hurt and end up on these threads!

Sorry for essay!

I was talking about a general attitude towards BBA and several people implying she was oversensitive.

And to be fair you did also ask if she was but worded it as being curious and exploring options.

Which could be seen as you exploring the issue. Or even trying to say she was oversensitive in a more snide way. Who knows.

What mrsdv said.

True that, although I feel I was unfairly misrepresented tbh, otherwise I wouldn't have turned a hair.

Other thread has rightly gone

Threads and posts can be referenced of course they can, but accurately and honestly. No one would argue with that.

Hi, just here in solidarity as I am on good speaking terms with a few of the MNers on here (ma fellow ninjas 🤓)

Also sick of seeing disabilist comments left to stand on threads, and any discussion about disabilism being allowed to turn into a bun fight with no respect for the people who are trying to have a fair discussion.

(A thread in particular wound me up where posters tried to argue that the word 'disabilism' isn't a word )

Maddy where is the line of what is/isn't disablist? I genuinely ask because I am disabled myself, but even I can't identify what some see in the posts. Should disability not be discussed unless it comes from the disabled community itself? It just seems really hard to identify. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be identified but it just seems so easy to be demonised on here for using the wrong wording.

I wasn't actually directly quoting you.

But so what. Fuck this shit. This is why I don't post on general MN threads now. And just illustrates how things are on MN for people dealing with disability, beautifully.

I see the derailing is underway.... Please ignore it. I'm learning a lot from this.

Thanks for understanding Agruffalo

In the interests of honesty I have reported what I originally said in the other thread to HQ so they can compare it with the accusation and delete my post if need be.

its not tackled, and instead we have to deal with people constantly telling us we're wrong, its not meant that way, we're oversensitive...etc

And Gruffalo, we don't mind discussing it, we do mind being told we're wrong when we're trying to explain to people, actually, we're not, and this is why.

If you're going to quote people and take their comments from other threads you can't really complain if they want to defend themselves or clarify things.

It's like Groundhog Day. These threads get posted, they turn into a bunfight, get deleted and it starts again. I've been here 8 or 9 years and it's always happened.

It's beyond a joke. Disablism is a serious issue but it's not tackled. It's a shame.

A few threads back, when it looked like progress was being made and MNHQ started with the personal deletion messages, we had some success with collective reporting of posts. It's not the MN way but I think HQ acknowledge there's an issue and if we link to offensive posts and multiples of us report offensive posts would appear brighter on the radar.

I know it's another education thing - but education really is the way forwards.

(Said by someone who's had a few months off the fight, to avoid the extra emotional loading)

What do you mean by that please Bishop