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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Disablism

811 replies

BishopBrennansArse · 17/10/2016 11:06

Shiny new thread.

Hopefully won't get derailed.

OP posts:
KateMumsnet · 19/10/2016 19:39

@GingerIvy

And what about the situations where the moment someone brings up disabilities, they get harassed and hounded with pedantic arguments (like the thread I was on tonight) where every time I answered accusations, I was accused of all sorts. So essentially I wasn't allowed to reasonably respond to their comments without being accused, but they went after my posts over and over.

GingerIvy, in that situation please do report and we'll definitely take a look.

CandyMcJingles · 19/10/2016 19:39

I stayed within talk guidelines on my thread Katemumsnet.

Freedom of speech is not freedom to be disablist. Stop it.

You do think we don't understand what freedom of speech is?

Fro. Our posts do we come across is unintelligent?

Do you think we can't tell the difference between freedom of speech and disablism?

W don't report EVERY post you know. We enjoy reading free speech.
We are quite able to distinguish between the two.

How insulting.

Protecting the feelings of posters who are anxious to post but not our feelings?

Are there feelings more important?

With every mumsnet excuse you are becoming more and more insulting.

NavyandWhite · 19/10/2016 19:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Smartleatherbag · 19/10/2016 19:38

Candy, totally right there re civil rights etc.
I do not know how MMHQ are so blind.
MMHQ, you would do well to utilise the link Bishop put up and get some training. Or apply critical thinking / compassion.

GingerIvy · 19/10/2016 19:37

I don't know why I bother anymore. The party line seems to be "we are discussing it" and "we are monitoring it." Well, discussing and monitoring doesn't seem to be helping. Looks like "sorry, folks, but we're not interested in making positive changes" would be a more honest answer.

GingerIvy · 19/10/2016 19:35

And what about the situations where the moment someone brings up disabilities, they get harassed and hounded with pedantic arguments (like the thread I was on tonight) where every time I answered accusations, I was accused of all sorts. So essentially I wasn't allowed to reasonably respond to their comments without being accused, but they went after my posts over and over.

It's every time now. The moment disability is brought up on those kind of threads, it's like a group beat-down on those posters that dare to mention disability.

AliceInUnderpants · 19/10/2016 19:35

FFS, why do MNHQ think that they can make a better decision about what is offensive than the people who are actually fucking offended??

The same line has been pushed for months now... 'we are seeking advice', 'we are looking into it' ' we are trying this'.

It isn't working. Listen to us!

BishopBrennansArse · 19/10/2016 19:29

And now on a thread that had been going so well about autism there's someone asking the question of whether it's ok to cure a person with autism because that's what the person caring for them wants. Without knowing what the person with autism wants.

OP posts:
johndeaconslostafro2 · 19/10/2016 19:28

Dismissive

johndeaconslostafro2 · 19/10/2016 19:24

Well that clears everything up then.

We are all wrong, becuase years ago you tried something and you don't think it will work.

Brilliant.

BishopBrennansArse · 19/10/2016 19:23

Whilst you're consulting disability charities you might like to consider organisations like these for some training

OP posts:
CandyMcJingles · 19/10/2016 19:18

KateMumsnet. You deleted my thread where I asked a valid but difficult question.
I want given the same right as the poster making a disablist thread about supports living.
So I don't accept the difficulty you say you have.
If it's that difficult for you (and I don't get that, I would assume the criteria for working for MN is quite high), then you need help.
We are actually doing the legwork for you, explaining the covert disablism, reporting it, expecting a fair response.

Stop making excuses.especially the same old excuses.

Get tough on disablism. Give it s trial. Three months of actually believing us, accepting what we say.

Suffragettes were misunderstood.
Civil rights campaigners were misunderstood.

Stop misunderstanding us.

Smartleatherbag · 19/10/2016 19:11

So casual discrimination of the most vulnerable people in our society is fine then, MMHQ?

Fantastic.

KateMumsnet · 19/10/2016 19:01

Thanks for your feedback on the last couple of threads - we do understand that some of you feel strongly that we are not dealing firmly enough with disablism on the boards.

It seems as though the really sticky issue is not overt disablism (which on the whole most of you think we get broadly right) but with what some MNers consider to be covert disablism. For example, an OP where a MNer's child has been upset or hurt by another child and has failed to consider whether or not that child might have SN. Or last night's thread, where some of you considered that it should have been understood that supported accommodation for 'challenging' 16-24 year-olds would likely contain a good proportion of young people with disabilities.

Our difficulty is that these threads are seen by many as attempts to get answers to valid - if difficult - questions. Or they are the expression of that MNers' own, personal lived experience - and while we understand that threads like these must sometimes seem to lack understanding of the issues facing disabled people or the parents of disabled children, our instinct is to allow the questions to be asked or the experience to be related.

As you know our view is generally to err on the side of freedom of expression - but more importantly, in our experience the sledgehammer approach just doesn't work. Instead of changing views, it seems likely to make it almost impossible to discuss any subject relating to disability, whether closely or tangentially. We already hear pretty often from MNers who say that they're very anxious about posting on this issue (some are parents of disabled children themselves).

We know this probably is not the answer you're hoping for, but it's where we're at right now. We'll continue to discuss it carefully here, and we're going to contact a couple of disability organisations to sense-check our thinking on some specific issues which seem to come up consistently. We really do want to do as well as we can at this, for everybody, and we know we don't get it right 100% of the time.

In the meantime please do make sure that, if you do get involved in discussions, you stay within the TGs. We know that these are emotive issues which people inevitably feel very strongly about, but - as is the case across MN - PAs will be deleted, and those who persistently do so risk a ban.

FlouncingIntoAutumn · 19/10/2016 18:51

Candy MNHQ have a duty of care to their employee, Rebecca. Allowing customers to directly attack a member of staff (and I'm with you on the frustration) is not going to help things.

Please can you consider rewording your post, you're to passionate an advocate to lose from the cause. Would something like...

'I'm really frustrated that I feel the response by MNHQ has tried to pigeon hole us and disabilism into the naughty corner - we wouldn't see this if it was transgender TAAT's'

convey the message without the direct personal insult?

CandyMcJingles · 19/10/2016 18:21

Well I've finally got a response.

Rebecca is RUDE.

Sgoinneal · 19/10/2016 18:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DixieNormas · 19/10/2016 18:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GingerIvy · 19/10/2016 17:35

I've added to that message. I don't imagine they'll be happy with me though. I'm just frustrated.

GingerIvy · 19/10/2016 17:34

So tired. It's a constant reminder that we can't just be normal people.

The "othering" is unbelievable.

MaddyHatter · 19/10/2016 17:30

Rebeccas response to Candys thread.

"Thanks for this Candy, we are trying to pull together some info and we will post on the thread in site stuff. We'd very much appreciate it if you could hang fire with starting threads to rehash the issues that have already been discussed. Please do keep an eye out in Site Stuff for our post and please do respond to that.

At the moment, these threads are creating more reports and taking time away from us being able to deal with the issues that you'd like us to look into.

Many thanks"

My reply

Wow.

Really, Funny that, i don't recall this being the response when there were eleventy million Transgender threads popping up.

Why do we get told to sit down, shut up and stay in our corner until we have your permission to keep posting?

GingerIvy · 19/10/2016 17:28

It appears so.

MaddyHatter · 19/10/2016 17:25

Judging by Rebeccas reply on it, we're expected to sit down, shut up and stay in our corner until MNHQ have spoken officially.

CandyMcJingles · 19/10/2016 17:16

I've started another thread.

It's not a Taat.

I'm asking for advice and support.

GingerIvy · 19/10/2016 17:12

My bingo card is full up.