Disablism

What I would like to see, is the ability for us to be able to say 'this might be disablist if you think about it from X point of view' without needing to call for deletions, shutting down discussions and bombastic arguments, but also that needs to cover having freedom to say it without being abused and screamed down with the SN Brigade catcalls from other posters.

I think that's a very sensible approach MaddyHatter

Just to be clear, I felt that she was being disablist and goady.

But they aren't wanting appropriate level of support for the whole class, they are wanting their child moved.

I think this is where we get into tricky territory.

And this is where the problem lies. Even though we point it out time and time again, they cannot know which children have SNs and which don't. There is a good chance the disruptive child needs more support - either behaviourally or due to SEN or other circumstances. Fix the lack of support, fix the problem. That may involve a move, but it may not, depending on the circumstances.

Move the "disruptive child" to sit by someone else doesn't solve the problem, as then there's another parent complaining. Move the "disruptive child" to sit by themselves isn't going to solve the problem either and it effectively segregates the child, which isn't right either.

Get better support, problem solve, and work on the issues at play - much better chance of everyone being happier.

I can't see why this is such a difficult concept to grasp. (God knows it has been explained on MN threads enough over the past 5 years or more)

Meh, it goes both ways. The most aggressive hounding and singling out on a thread that I have ever been on was from the mother of a child with ASD (apparently).
She didn't speak for me or my child but thought that she could.

The thing is, we all have our own opinion.. its also down to how strongly we feel about a subject and if its worth tackling.

I did feel the co-worker one was disablist, because i felt it was unfair to presume he was 'taking the piss' when it was likely his life as a Parent/Carer was clearly impacting on his job, but unless you have lived that life, you wouldn't understand.

I am borderline on the young peoples housing.. i think that one is probably more a prejudice against the stereotypical teenage troublemaker rather than any kind of disability or mental health problems.

I do think the child seating one is disablist, but my view there is clouded by my own DS's disability and the fact i have been on the end of parents requesting their children being moved away!

Other people will feel and think differently, so when even WE can't agree on whether a thread is covertly disablist or not, then we are never as a forum of hundreds of minds and opinions going to reach a consensus.

What I would like to see, is the ability for us to be able to say 'this might be disablist if you think about it from X point of view' without needing to call for deletions, shutting down discussions and bombastic arguments, but also that needs to cover having freedom to say it without being abused and screamed down with the SN Brigade catcalls from other posters.

If you don't feel you can educate on WHY a thread might be disablist then perhaps we ought to come here and ask someone else to do it, who does feel up to being able to put it down in simple, polite form.

Don't rise to the trolls, don't have a row just step away and ask someone else to take over... be it someone here or MNHQ.

Candy I don't know who you are. I wasn't talking about you personally.

You have no idea who I am or what kind of disablism me or my family have had to/still go through but I won't get into a competition with you.

This is why people are afraid to post - People are spoiling for a fight.

We already hear pretty often from MNers who say that they're very anxious about posting on this issue (some are parents of disabled children themselves).

I've seen these posters (either posters with disabilities or parents of disabled children) who've commented on threads saying that they don't consider x, y, or z as disablist referred to as 'turkeys voting for Christmas'.

Why is their view invalid?

We already hear pretty often from MNers who say that they're very anxious about posting on this issue (some are parents of disabled children themselves).

This is how I now feel. I have been shouted down before because I didn't think something said classed as disabilism. (I fall into the category of having complex disabilities and disabled DC)

But they aren't wanting appropriate level of support for the whole class, they are wanting their child moved.

I think this is where we get into tricky territory.

Mistress.

I haven't personally attached anyone, or name called. I have illustrated why a certain preemption is disablist.

If you want to bandy about the word ridiculous, another way of looking at it is that to say I am looking for trouble is ridiculous.

A good example of how w get should down, denied, dimissued when we try to educate others.

Mistress, out of you and me, who would you say knows more about disablism?

I'm totally with you, Candy.
For those who can't see it: if a black person tells you that something is, accidentally, racist, then you'd take their word for it, I'd imagine. As you should.
If a woman tells a man who is that something is, accidentally, sexist, then a decent bloke will listen and take it on board.
This. Is. The. Same.
I have had to learn this. You can too. It's ok to make mistakes. Absolutely fine, that's how people learn. What is infuriating is the dismissal of those WHO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. Please listen.

Mistress.

I did say you would get defensive.

mumsnetters shouldn't express concern about their child's seating?

You know what would be refreshing? It would be to see a poster say "AIBU to go in to the school and demand that they improve the level of support in my child's classroom as some children don't seem to be getting appropriate support and it's affecting the whole class."

So much nicer (and actually more accurate to the problem) than people complaining about disruptive children and how they don't want them near their child, but are happy to see all the "disruptive talkative children" grouped together elsewhere in the room at their own table and stating that it's acceptable if those children don't learn as much, as long as it's not affecting their own child.

Ah.

This merry go round hey.

Candy, this is ridiculous.

My post was not disablist.

However my hurt, frustration and offence isn't as important to Katemumnet as your "anxiety or not even anxiety"

I've made you slightly uncomfortable.

Actually I haven't. Society's crao attitude to disability has made you slightly uncomfortable.

Note to self. Must hide my own struggle, it's worth less than someone elses slight uncomfortableness.

What would you like to happen Candy?

Do you believe the OP should not have posted asking about her home or that mumsnetters shouldn't express concern about their child's seating?

I am trying to understand:)

Right let's clear this up.

My life is hard enough.

I am not looking for problems.

This is hard for you to rea and you'll probably feel defensive.

Blaming me by saying the issue is I'm looking for problems is disablist.

You've made a negative assumption about me because I want there to be no disablism and the only way I can make that happen is to address disablism.

I'm not a trouble maker
I'm not over sensitive
I'm not over reacting

But you have hurt me, frustrated me and insulted me by having that presumption.

We already hear pretty often from MNers who say that they're very anxious about posting on this issue (some are parents of disabled children themselves).

I would agree with that. I wouldn't say anxious but there is a definite feeling that people are looking for problems here rather than just highlighting them.

I feel like the housing thread was no different.

Why would anyone want to post about one of the hardest parts of their lives if they feel there are people out there waiting for them to trip up?

Or maybe you could try a less aggressive, bombastic approach? Without the shouting and stropping?

Loads of us go in actually quite evenly, and it's like the mention of the word disability or SNs is akin to a match near lighter fluid. Instantly, you can see the rolling eyes and sarcasm, and exasperation that we've dared to bring it up.

Navy you said my thread was a taat
.
I was asking for support to improve the situation so that people could post without a bun fight.

You were not supportive,

I've supported you in the dog house when you've received flak.

Generally I try to support people on MN.

You were unsupportive on a thread about supporting this impacted by disabilities.

And you've come here to tell us how it's done?

Do you not rakish we've already tried every which way? And nothing works? And yet we keep on?

No doubt you will get defensive and say I'm wrong, we are wrong

Deny
Dismiss
Diminish

I did. Tonight. Nothing was done.