Please can we have a Trans topic?

How many trans threads are actually going at the moment? Is it really a huge amount. Threads might get long and heated but they still just appear as one line along with the many many more threads. Just don't read them.

It's really too bad for you that you're fed up with them. As I'm sure you realise, your views aren't everyone's. But it's nice that you've identified exactly how much we are personally allowed to care or be concerned about this issue. I didn't realise there was a scientific formula. And as for calling people superior and saying that they think they are more intelligent than others. Pot. Kettle.

Again, it's the massively pro-trans people who want to ghettoise it. The people who don't care about women's rights.

No. It's not about trans it's about women's rights. Anyway you'd get the same number of threads. Just hide each one individuals.

Trans is juggernauting into every area of women's lives. It's not niche. It's a pernicious nightmare.

So NO NO NO.

I think intentionally ghettoising feminist subjects is a bit of a retrograde step.

How is putting them into a publicly available forum "ghettoising", and why is any more ghettoising than pushing EU threads into the EU forum?

The whole of AIBU is robust and intimidating.

because you're perfectly capable of finding the threads for yourself, and reading them.

I'm fed up of them, i'm fed up of seeing them, i think we need a topic for them to be in like every other thing on here that has its own topic.

I don't agree with the argument that 'we need to be seeeeeen' is a valid one for not having a topic.

The point of a topic is that if thats what you want to talk about or learn about or debate, you use that space to do it and stop clogging up the general areas of the board with it.

And from what I gather, plenty of people would argue that all posting on the feminist boards is 'robust' at best and intimidating at worst. Are trans discussions really that different?

i am not going to be subjected to the same shutting down, interrogations, and demands for sources that the 'i'm more intelligent that you are' posters do over there

why is it wrong to ask for a source?

Best hide all the threads then Maddy. Really, not sure what you expect people to say. For someone pearl clutching about "offensive" posting you're making quite a good job of being offensive yourself to people actually posting on this thread.

I'll continue to post when and where I feel like doing so, thanks all the same.

If you want all threads that discuss trans issues to be shunted off to feminism, MN can already do that, although, I think intentionally ghettoising feminist subjects is a bit of a retrograde step.

If you don't think discussions of gender issues fit in feminism, then, well, that's a bit odd.

i didn't say they were, but the same people do it in every thread.

And no, i'm not going to cite sources because its a talk forum and i don't fucking have to.

this isn't the feminism topic and i am not going to be subjected to the same shutting down, interrogations, and demands for sources that the 'i'm more intelligent that you are' posters do over there. I avoid that topic for the same reasons.

the same people arguing over the same thing and spouting the same predjudice and scaremongering

the threads aren't all prejudice and scaremongering.

MNHQ already said no not long ago. Pointless starting another thread when the question has been answered.

Maddy please would you give specific example of what you class as prejudice and scaremongering?

I would love to know where else I can read and participate in more intelligent and unbiased discussions than here. Please would you link?

Is it shutting down discussion to have a feminist/referendum/dog/WOHM/SAHM topic?

No, but 'trans' threads discussing gender identity already fit into the feminism topic.

It's also perfectly acceptable to talk about dogs on AIBU and chat or any other board where dogs are relevant. Most importantly, the 'doghouse' topic exists because people want to post there. It's a bit difficult to maintain a topic that nobody chooses to post to.

When anyone dares to offer a different view to the majority re trans issues they are 'shut down' and then those posters deny it and demand evidence that they have been transphobic etc.

Obviously everyone should follow the talk guidelines. However, a strong argument isn't shutting somebody down. The solution is to offer a better counter argument.

how is not wanting to see the same people arguing over the same thing and spouting the same predjudice and scaremongering burying our heads in the sand?

There are plenty of other places i can go to read much more intelligent and unbiased discussion about the issue if i want to.. i dont need the constant threads on MN to raise my awareness.

Talk about fucking ego.. jesus.

Its Mumsnet, not "EducatePeopleOnTransIssuesNet"

I really wish you'd all take your big heads and naval gazing where i don't have to keep stumbling across it!

If you're going to call people transphobic, don't you think you should tell them what you've based that judgement on, rather than saying how mean they are and flouncing from the thread? Otherwise how are they going to learn? Shouldn't you educate them in the error of their ways?

I agree - that way it still gets to the people who are unaware but people can hide the topic.

It won't happen though because of the posts above - words like 'ghettoised' and 'shut down discussion' and 'women's rights erosion'.

Is it shutting down discussion to have a feminist/referendum/dog/WOHM/SAHM topic? Presumably not. And people who aren't interested in those topics are at liberty to hide them.

When anyone dares to offer a different view to the majority re trans issues they are 'shut down' and then those posters deny it and demand evidence that they have been transphobic etc.

I recently suggested a separate topic on one of the threads and was told not to post if i didn't like it and to post in site stuff.

Sadly this thread will descend into a bunfight due to the subject.

There shouldn't be a ghettoised trans topic that can be safely ignored by people who want to bury their heads in the sand.

MN is one of the few places where it is OK to challenge the fundamental principle that if you believe in the view that there should be no such thing as "girls toys" and "boys toys"; "girls clothes" and "boys clothes"; or "girls career aspirations" and "boys career aspirations" (this view is commonly called feminism and is a legitimate and not particularly extreme view) then you can't also believe the clashing and incompatible view that it's possible to be completely genetically and physically a man but "feel" like a woman.

It is only possible to hold both views if you haven't thought about it properly.

It is legitimate for people who have thought about it properly to make lots of noise about it and make people think about it because the path we are on is going to erase a lot of women's rights and protections if left unchecked.

It is perfectly possible to go with the former view (feminism) and still be 100% supportive of any person's right (male or female) to wear dresses, high heels and makeup, and ask people to call them Helen and not use male pronouns to refer to them.

One of the main functions of MN (apart from its primary mission of supporting parents) is as a platform for 'anonymous arguing', open to all but particularly attractive to women old enough to be mothers or grandmothers. Its a great place to thrash out ideas - E.g. I've done a lot of 'anonymous arguing' on the Pilosophy and Religion board which has informed my thinking and therefore RL actions. Same thing with this and other issues pertaining to feminism.

The referendum threads were truly taking over, there were dozens going at a time. So-called trans threads are not in that league. Look on any board and you won't see more than one currently active trans thread, and obviously the vast majority of boards have zero. It's not at al comparable to referendum threads where you had multiple threads on multiple boards all active at the same time.

I honestly don't see any RL galvanising. I see anonymous arguing

Being 'out' in public about being gendercrit is risky. There are spaces for women who are organising and taking action but they are closely guarded. They are not mentioned on a mumsnet thread for fairly obvious reasons.

Pressed post too soon: issues such as MNer with a child who feels they are trans should be the ones which sit in a trans topic where sensitive input and advice can be provided to help. That topic does not need nor should it be the place where people debate issues of women's rights and tranactivism.

Whilst people mischaracterise all these threads as 'trans', they are not. They are all about the erosion of women's rights, safe spaces and ability to be counted and measured as a group. Hence the overwhelmingly female audience on MN should have the chance to be aware.

The threads being categorised as trans threads are already in the correct sections: news; parenting; feminism.
There is also an LGBT section but most 'trans threads' don't sit there because they are about issues (ie politics; quotas; education; crime statistics) not individuals.
I think a 'trans' topic is problematic because it lumps the individual and the political together. That won't help trans people looking for support. It won't help people wrestling with the political, social and legal impact on women.
The only posters it helps is those who don't seem to want to hide threads. I don't think their need is greater tbh.
And, of course, even with a trans topic it would still appear in active and they might still click through accidentally.