Please can we have a Trans topic?

After reading a lot of the threads recently, It has made me more supportive of trans people.

I wonder what MNHQ think about their site getting a reputation for bring transphobic, I'm not agreeing that it is, but it is getting that reputation.

How am I supposed to know, as a person posting from a gender critical perspective on trans threads, whether or not it refers to me? If you address it generally, obviously people are going to think it may be aimed at them. And it really was excessively offensive to people expressing their opinions on a discussion board.

I'm not taking the post personally, but I am struggling to understand the point of it.

again, why are you taking it personally when i wasn't referring to you?

In the context, I think the post calling other posters cunts is quite illuminating and I wouldn't want it to be deleted.

Apologies for double posting, it's a bad connection. Do you genuinely think it's at all pleasant, helpful or constructive to call people "cunts" and "bitchploppers" (in a general context, of course) and say they're not intelligent?

I don't feel "guilty" Maddy. Why on earth would I? It's just your rather silly opinion. The irony was you claiming that other people were being offensive when you were far more so.

I don't feel "guilty" Maddy. Why on earth would I? It's just your rather silly opinion. The irony was you claiming that other people were being offensive when you were far more so.

because my post was general venus.. obviously if you took my comments personally, perhaps you have something to feel guilty about?

The threads HAVE been full of people making offensive remarks, only coming on to insult people...etc. I never once said it was you or anyone else personally posting on this thread.. it was meant in general as to the tone of how threads about Trans issues go in general.. and WHY i'm fed up of reading them... they turn into a bloody bunfight every single time.

Perhaps if you spent less time getting defensive and trying to shut people down who disagree with you, you might have a more pleasant debate.

Would a trans person be intimidated on here? Yup.

The question is though why would they feel intimidated?

Nobody should feel intimidated by personal abuse. As far as I am aware mumsnet has a very clear talk policy and all topics are moderated.

However, if somebody feels intimidated by an idea, for instance the idea that gender is a social construct, not a concrete fact and that sex can't be changed, is the idea wrong?

Sometimes the interests of two groups are in conflict - does that mean that they shouldn't be able to talk for fear of causing offense?

I don't think that Mumsnet has any interest in breaking the law. However, the issue of 'misgendering' should be discussed. When you call somebody 'he' or 'she' purely on the basis of self identification, you are making a statement about language. It should be possible to discuss this without deliberately offending individuals, but it should also be possible to have a discussion and that may sometimes upset people.

Sometimes free speech causes people to be upset, and that is not a problem.

Laura, the onus is on people making an extraordinary claim to prove their case. Not the other way round.

But you're a man, aren't you, so I'm sure you can't wait to mansplain it all to us. Harassment of women is illegal. Misogyny is in breach of sex as a protected characteristic in the Equality Act. Funnily enough no one gives a fuck about that, on mumsnet or anywhere else.

What about "die in a fire TERF" and "choke on my lady stick" and all the attendant nasty shit that SOME transactivists direct towards women who dare to politely question them?
Now that's harassment and actually pretty terrifying. Do you really think I'd be comfortable using my real name on here and having my usual email linked to my account? No, I fucking would not!

What about gaslighting and intimidating women? What about letting men into female safe spaces? Trans or otherwise? Where do you stand on that?

As I said earlier, the default assumption should be that until there is evidence proving a subset of men are any less violent than men as a class overall, they aren't. We do generally require evidence for these kind of claims.

It already is a free for all, across all areas of the boards. Mumsnet is now the transphobic parenting site.

From the government's report-it site:
"What is harassment?

Harassment is any unwelcome comments (written or spoken) or conduct which:

violates an individual's dignity; and/or
creates an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment.

Harassment can take many forms including violence, threats, abuse, and damage to property. It can involve verbal abuse and name calling, offensive graffiti or post and can be received via text message, emails or social networking sites like Facebook or MySpace.

It may cause physical injury, mental stress, anxiety, or insecurity. It can also occur for a variety of reasons, including race, religious belief, sexual orientation, gender identity or disability.

Harassment is a criminal offence. If you are being harassed, report it. "

So, does calling a trans woman "he" violate an individual's dignity? Yup.

Would a trans person be intimidated on here? Yup.

Mumsnet allows harassment that is illegal.

Thanks Katherine. Btw my post saying "cunts" and "bitchploppers" was referring to Maddy's lovely post calling posters here nasty things like that (including those exact words) while pearl clutching about "offensive" gender critical posting. Nice that some dimwit reported my post but not hers.

I think there was a cohort study done in Sweden of all the tw in the country that showed no different in violent offending behaviour between tw and men. Afaik, the tm had higher rates of violent crime than women (born women). I'm sure someone will link to it soon

I'm not sure anyone's done a study on the violence rate of trans women. Or of trans men. (There would be some problems with setting up such a study, such as forming a large enough sample size.)

I'm not sure anyone's done a study on the violence rate of trans women. Or of trans men. (There would be some problems with setting up such a study, such as forming a large enough sample size.)

Thanks Katherine

Thanks Katherine

Brilliant, thanks Katherine

Thanks Katherine. Not the first time this request has been made and probably won't be the last!