I Would Like To Propose A Solution To The Trans Threads Problem

I think dealing with Site stuff will be a disciplinary tool at MNHQ.

Late for work? 2 days of Site stuff. Messed up the office microwave? 1 day. Forgot to put the gin order in before stocks run out? 2 weeks Site stuff detention.

pontypines I posted on the burkini thread deploring the behaviour of the French police and the passing of blatantly racist laws.

And I think my position is entirely consistent. I believe in religious tolerance. People should not be discriminated against in employment, housing, access to public services, etc. because of their beliefs. Nor should they be harrassed on the streets for their religious beliefs - and I fully endorse punishment for racially/religiously motivated hate crimes.

Likewise, I want to see trans people have the same rights to employment, housing, etc. and the same right to live free from harrassment.

However, that does not mean I have to share either group's belief system, nor should I be forced to make "declarations of faith" pretending that I do. I don't believe in God or immortal souls. I don't believe in lady penises or gendered brains.

Nor does it mean they have the right to impose the consequences of their belief on me. Not that it's ever going to happen in this country, but if my local swimming pool tried to make me wear a burkini so as not to offend the religious sensibilities of some of their Muslim users, I would object to this. And likewise, if I go to a not so local pool which only has (sex segregated) communal changing rooms, no cubicles, I expect to be able to get changed without having someone who has a penis present in the same communal changing area as me. (Unlike the burkini example, this is happening in parts of the USA and Canada where "self-certification" of gender is now on the statute books, and it could happen here if Maria Miller's recommendations are followed).

I am against religious parents (admittedly with a strong cultural component overlaying their beliefs - I realise this is not sanctioned by Islam and is practised by a lot of Christians in certain countries) taking their daughters abroad for FGM. Similarly, I am against parents being allowed to support their children accessing puberty blockers when those drugs carry the risk of infertility and enhanced risk of various cancers.

Quite simple - adults can believe, dress, present as they please, and I will support their right to do so free from harrassment. They can't impinge on my rights, though, because then I will get cross. Nor should they be using those beliefs as a reason to carry out possibly permanent changes to their children's bodies.

But yet you are happy to preach about the 4 types of trans thread YOU think should be allowed?

Please answer the question that has been asked many times.

Why can you just not open trans threads or if you do close them again and move on?

Do you really have such a high opinion of yourself that you believed mnhq would go yep ok, Dion has requested it as SHE is not able to just scroll past threads we will do as she demands?

I don't think AIBU is popular because of the 'variety'. It's because it's bunfight central and a bit ridiculous.

YY I think they are pulling names out of a hat as to which MNHQer deals with Site Stuff when everyone comes back from the holidays.

I would wager that this is why aibu and chat are the most popular boards. Because of the variety.

I reckon when MNHQ tries to decide who gets to deal with site stuff, it's a bit like when your kid has done a really foul nappy that you know is going to go everywhere and it's like pass the baby: "no, you do it", "no, you", "I did it last time", "No, I got the last one like this", "No you didn't, I always get them", "I'll buy you wine if you do it"...

Personally I think that the recent trans threads have been some of the most interesting and enlightening on mn lately. I thought similarly about some of the brexit ones. They don't crop up in active so much anymore so I don't see them unless I go hunting and I don't always.
If the trans threads were to be moved I probably would search for them but they move so quickly in the general forum and spark lively debate which is what I thought mn was for.

I'm not sure about all of the separate boards on the site in general. I'm sure there are lots of threads that would interest me that I never come across because I don't know they exist. I know mn needs some sort of organisation but I would like to see a more open forum, without so much of a need for putting different subject matter in the correct box. I find that a bit stifling and boring.

pontypines, the difference between this and the burkini ban is that the burkini thing was all over mainstream news/social media/RL.

It was so patently ludicrous it was being talked about everywhere.

Unlike this erosion of our rights, which is insidious and talked about nowhere.

I wouldn't blame them if they had TBH.

I reckon HQ have hidden Site Stuff grin

I think you are right

I reckon HQ have hidden Site Stuff

Do MNHQ not look at Site Stuff threads any more? This has rumbled on for pages now but no comment from them

I imagine MNHQ are currently sitting with their heads in their hands in a darkened room surrounded by empty gin bottles.,.. [grin ]

Trans threads are the new Cake (brass eye ref). Once you see one apparently you can't turn off.

Exactly Caipora.

It's not about hating or supporting trans people- in fact, the debate isn't specific to transpeople at all. It's about women.

"protecting the rights of women threads"

Really? Is that why I saw several posters from the trans threads defending the burkini ban and that it was absolutely fine for women to be forcibly stripped in public? Or is it only certain women who deserve protecting?

Of those who actually posted, of course, since those events had a far more muted reaction on here, compared to what happens when a trans person writes something on twitter.

A Fuck Trans thread. For posters who hate that people are trans.
A Yay Trans thread. For posters who wish to support trans people.

What if you are neither?

This just sounds like a summary of the issues from your point of view, which suggests you cannot see anything from any other vantage point than that narrow one.

As usual the problem is not be the debate itself but the small minds that are the most vocal in it.

Whoops, Kua beat me to it.

She's probably another gobby, uppity woman who doesn't know her place.

JAPAB, a woman actually discovered the sex chromosomes.

Of course not many know about her, being a woman and all.

Inertia has it right, it's not that these threads are "just" trans threads.
So called trans issues are relevant to all women and shouldn't be hidden away.

If you are not interested, then don't open the thread or just close it if you do. Just as I do with threads about films, music or tv shows.

Spot on, Inertia. I am all in favour of the rights of transgender people but not when they impinge upon the rights of women. All the recent "trans threads" have, in fact, been examining and rejecting attacks on women's rights by TAs and their supporters. Trouble is, there's nothing much in the way of middle ground. If you don't agree that people can change sex you aren't going to accept that transgender males can become women.

With some of the legal and social changes underway the rights of women to a whole range of things including, but not limited by, safety and privacy are being trashed.

A truly depressing number of Lots of women have no time for feminism, but it's only in solidarity with other women that we can stand against the tide.

The trans activist agenda is the biggest threat to women's rights in 100 years, and every day on MN more women are becoming aware that it's going to affect them and their children, not some notional group of feminists with whom they may not identify

To add - I know we have the feminism boards, but many women on MN do not consider themselves feminists so don't use those boards. They still have the right to know about possible changes to their legal rights as women.

I don't think it helps that anything related to this topic becomes known as 'trans threads'. Trans activists are more than capable of making their voices heard and making their own cases, and one of the things we are protesting against is women being defined and redefined by / relative to biological men.

It would probably be more useful to call them 'protecting the rights of women' threads, or the 'legislation which discriminates against women' threads, or the 'women's safety' threads. There are many related issues, and proposed changes to legislation could affect not just women's protected spaces and legal definitions, but employment law ( so relevant to MN jobs / legal boards), rights in pregnancy (pregnancy board), medical care in pregnancy, childbirth and post-partum (health boards), contraceptive issues (health board), dealing with gender pressures on children (parenting boards) , spousal relationships (relationships board), questioning the validity of arguments/ reasoning of lawmaking bodies (AIBU), appropriation or banning of language(possibly AIBU or chat, or the languages board). And this is why I disagree with Dione's proposal of creating a specific board - the possible erosion of women's rights is a many-tentacled beast, it cannot be reduced to one issue.

I completely disagree about making a separate trans topic, it needs to be visible as so many posters are reading them and suddenly realising how important this is. You see posters saying this time and again. I would have said the same about a year ago when I didn't know much about it all. These threads have taught me such a lot and I know how important it it to increase awareness of the real issues for every woman in this country.

It's sad to see people with a 'I'm alright Jack' type of attitude because it doesn't directly affect them at that time. If you have a daughter then it most certainly does affect you. Especially if your daughter is gay, or keen on competitive sport, or unsure about their own identity. It affects our sons too of course, mainly if they are not conforming to the stereotypical male stereotype.

The most recent threads were triggered by events at edinburgh university, but it's likely this is being replicated at other institutions all over the country.

I can only encourage the people who are fed up to hide threads, or take the time to read them and understand why so many of us are worried about erosion of hard fought for rights of women.

Sorry, forgot to add a [lighthearted] tag to that post