I Would Like To Propose A Solution To The Trans Threads Problem

How is Stephoknee influential now?

All the top google hits for that name are post the interview. Who is claiming she is influential now, when the Canadian government stuff was back in 2012?

Where is the site claiming Stephoknee as the great trans aspirational figure as she is now?

People are posting in Site Stuff these days because some MNers were banned and others are demanding clarification of Talk Guidelines

And are using those threads not merely to demand clarification but to use them to debate 'trans' issues and the effect on women.

Which you know perfectly well, of course

Maybe there should be some threads in the popular and busy Chat to raise awareness of this important issue rather than hiding this discussion in Site stuff?

hazeyjane, you still haven't answered the question how it would be removing freedom of speech simply to have threads in a different topic.

People are posting in Site Stuff these days because some MNers were banned and others are demanding clarification of Talk Guidelines.

Which you know perfectly well, of course.

It doesn't matter if "Stephonknee" is an advisor to Canadian government now. The fact is that this person is an influential TA, one of many that we are asked to support in this madness lest we get called bigots.

Someone please take a look at the video S is a Shero on Stephonknee's website (followed on from IPity's link) and tell me that this is just a normal variation of the human condition.

The irony is is that it seems site stuff is now the area for trans threads - so it's got its own area as this is where people seem to be posting - apart from FWR of course.

"it was cote who said that LGBT children was designated a safe space for support rather than debate."

Yes I did, and it is true. There are two separate "safe area" topics on MN where trans MNers AND parents of trans children to talk about issues that concern them and receive support. Those are not areas for debate and if you see OPs being harassed there, you should report. I wouldn't know because I don't hang out on those topics (again, because they are for support, not debate).

And I pointed out those two topics because someone said it would be a good idea to shove all trans-related threads to a trans topic so it could be a safe area. That is smokescreen. Nobody needs that because two whole topics already exist for that purpose.

RiverTam - I googled Stefonkee. There is an interview where they discuss campaigning for the Canadian govt to pass Bill 33. In 2012. In the interview there's no mention of being 6 years old, nor is there on the website linked to. toronto.mediacoop.ca/story/interview-stefoknee-wolscht/14576

Stefonkee "living as a 6 year old" seems to have all emerged in 2015, following an interview she gave to Canadian tv, as you can see from Google, that's when the story breaks.

So the idea that she's a current mainstream govt advisor, is as far as I can see, false.

Likewise the claim made on MN, that the main US paediatric doctors org had made a statement condemning transgenderism. Again, a google would show you that this org was the American College of Pediatrics (an anti LGBT group who had recently condemned same sex marriage), not the American Academy of Pediatrics.

I am the same Hex and like Pacific and many others I think, I am grateful for the intelligent, eloquent posts on this subject and also to MN for facilitating the open discussion of this important issue.

It shouldn't be consigned to a corner simply because people don't think it's relevant to them.

I didn't ever open any trans related threads until very recently then something struck a chord and I started reading them all. We have every reason to feel unnerved about this issue and as someone who doesn't do social media of any kind, MN is the only safe place for me to gain a feminist perspective on this.

To say that it doesn't affect your day to day lives is, frankly ignorant. And please, before you reach for your keyboard to respond to that, I'm not trying to insult nor offend. I was ignorant of these issues until I delved a little further and now I'm wary of how things seem to be moving in this country.

I'm doubly wary of this issue because speaking openly and honestly about my fears will provoke someone calling me transphobic, or homophobic or TERF, yet I am none of these. But we have an agenda in this country which seems hell bent in supporting people's perceived rights and being 'right on' even if it means pissing all over the rights of women in the UK. This trans-related entitlement is muscling its way into our schools (I speak from experience) and the bile that's spouted by many teenagers in their self defence is almost identical to what I read on the links provided in the Spartacus and other threads. It's frightening. These teenagers have no knowledge of the struggle between men's and women's rights, no idea of the feminist perspective in the UK, no idea of the inequality and the history of inequality yet they'll happily jump on the bandwagon and start yelling TERF if they cannot muscle into the girls toilets and wear make-up to school.

Interesting because I read that thread as people showing concern about the medical treatment of a child with complex issues. I don't think anyone was "raising awareness". Fwiw I posted on there myself because I had read the OPs other threads about her daughters eating disorders and was very worried that the daughter wasn't getting appropriate medical treatment or support for a whole range of body issues. I don't feel that was in any way inappropriate.

Felas it was cote who said that LGBT children was designated a safe space for support rather than debate. The OP received support from parents in the same situation like Elsa who was then accused of "making it all about her" ffs, then some klaxon must have gone off somewhere as posters piled in and accused her of being everything from smug iirc because she had a smiley emoji in the title to dragging up her DD's anorexic past. The point was the OP had not posted in AIBU or Feminist Theory. She had posted in a support group, a so-called designated "safe place" which was then invaded by persons insisting on raising her awareness. These were not alternative experiences from mums who have trans teens, they were posters who had decided she was in the wrong and must be told that in no uncertain terms.

fascile can you show us some examples of 'a heavy dose of sensationalism and an absence of evaluation', that's not something I've noticed on the various trans threads I've been on, though I may have missed it.

Personally I would love to think that, for example, Stephonknee, the middle aged male who identifies as a 6yo girl was a fiction and not an advisor to the Canadian government, but unfortunately it's the truth.

If you say so. I don't use words used for sex organs as insults but the expression you used would be accurate assessment of my reaction to your original post.

Fair enough.

CoteDAzur
"they believe they are educating the ignorant raising awareness "

I corrected that sentence for you, Kimmy. You are welcome.

Raising awareness? It feels to me like a recruitment drive using a heavy dose of sensationalism and an absence of evaluation. Some people are fully aware of both sides of the debate but arrive at conclusions different from the ones being pushed on these threads.

kimmy that second thread was very concerning. Are we all supposed to be blindly supportive of parents proposals just because they've used the word trans? On all the other boards, people get robust advice if what they are saying/have posted in the past is concerning or dangerous. I've seen loads in relationships.

I was not talking down to leccy.
I was being ironic and showing her that sexism can be present in her life hence the patronising sentence

If you say so. I don't use words used for sex organs as insults but the expression you used would be accurate assessment of my reaction to your original post.

I'm glad MN aren't considering a separate trans forum.

I'm not a regular or previous poster on trans threads, or FWR. I'm another who, until the recent fallout over the thread about the person who calls themselves Ada Wells, had no idea this politicisation of what it means to be one sex or the other and the accompanying insidious erosion of women's rights was happening, nor the terrifying impact this could be - and is already, in places - having on children and teenagers who are going through entirely natural phases of uncertainty about identity and sexuality. I had never heard of the quite frankly horrifying concept of the "cotton ceiling" or the pressure being brought to bear on lesbians to date transwomen with penises and being subjected to insults such as "cisdyke" if they refused.

If these discussions had been hidden away in a Trans section I would not have read them. I would have assumed such a topic was for those dealing with the realisation of being trans or supporting loved ones going through transition. I would have remained ignorant of the fact that what has been discussed recently is not actually about being trans but about being female, and the impact of transactivist ideology on what it means to be - not "feel" - a woman. I would not have read the heartbreaking testimony of one poster, Molly something (I'm sorry I can't remember her real name) who told us about her teenage daughter being targeted by TRAs for daring to run a support group for young lesbians. I would have continued sleepwalking into a future that threatens TRAs shaping political policy because they are the ones shouting loudest, they are the ones closing down alternative discussion, they are the ones screaming "transphobic!" at every dissenting viewpoint, however rationally informed. A future where the rights so hard fought for by the women who came before me are eroded, and the women who come after me suffer for it.

I am not transphobic. I will support anyone in the right to be able to live their lives how they wish, free from hatred, persecution and discrimination. In that, I have not changed. But that right can't come at the expense of others' rights - in this case women's. And that's why I am Spartacus.

So thank you, MN. I don't think you've been perfect on this issue but in this instance I think you have made the right call.

Worra
Bambambini was replying to the post addressed to me, on this thread,, which said that Julia Serano was a random twitter poster and that my post was tedious.

I couldn't be arsed to reply to the poster as was likely to react to the crass rudeness of it and am pleased that Bambamini did post eloquently that JS was in fact a very influential and prominent TA, making her quote not random or tedious at all

So not need to have a go at her. I await your wrath of course

How does giving something a separate topic amount to restricting freedom of speech? Are MN restricting freedom of speech on disability by having a separate SN topic?
The sn topic is largely for support and advice, and was wanted by the people who use it. It isn't the same thing at all, as bring a parent to a child with sn or having sn isn't a 'debate' topic, the way that transactivism and it's effect on policy and women's rights is.

Debates which involve disability crops up on the main boards often, and there are often posters saying it should be on the sn boards.....which is insulting and restricting.

Lass.

I was not talking down to leccy.
I was being ironic and showing her that sexism can be present in her life hence the patronising sentence.

Pointing out grammatical errors is fine i am a shit speller and i know it.
It does make you look a bit of a dick though.

Maybe its best you hide the important stuff you dont understand theres a good girl

I was trying to prove a point.

I appreciate it is considered bad form to point out grammatical errors but a post as patronising as this one deserves it. If you are going to talk down to other posters to demonstrate how enlightened and informed you are it might be advisable to proof read your posts.

Or are 4 glaring errors in a 15 word sentence "ironic"?

Well, raising awareness has certainly worked. There can't be a mnetter, newbie or royalty who isn't bloody aware now.

considered controversial

Worra - no, I just saw a poster earlier making a claim along the line earlier of folk dismissing others of posting random comments from random folk on who have no influence or wider voice. . JS is not some random person in the trans debate. Some of her articles and views are considered and she has a high profile and following. She is influential. If you aren't interested, you don't have to open any links or even reply.

And I don't see what is particularly arrogant about posting a link on someone who was already mentioned but hey ho.