I Would Like To Propose A Solution To The Trans Threads Problem

Sure. Where would you like to answer, then?

Choose a thread. There are several on this topic at the moment.

Over to you.

And if not, what is a woman

With all due respect cote, I am not going to open that can of beans on here - for lots of reasons.

This thread is also about having an area for trans threads - rather than me answering a question from you,.

So I'd be derailing this thread.

"didn't really help explain the TRA "A woman is anyone who feels like a woman" position. I assume because that isn't your view either."

I wouldn't assume that at all.

It would be interesting if Ego would like to answer, though and not with a question.

Ego - Do you believe that a woman is anyone who feels like a woman?

And if not, what is a woman?

As I was saying felas, the 'bullshit' thread was good because there were sensible contributions, people listening, discussion on all sides and it was one of the better debates on here - rather than mere echo chambers.

Some people are just perfect the way they are and know everything there is to be known.

Yes, there does seem to be people on MN just like that.

Where else do we find a forum that is not an echo chamber?

Do you ever wonder if the trans threads themselves on here are an echo chamber rather than a debate with a range of voices?

Do you ever wonder how pointless it is to answer a question with a question?

So you've no answer to that question?

Is that why you almost always answer questions with questions?

I can do this all day, Ego. Go on, answer with another question.

Do you ever wonder how pointless it is to answer a question with a question

So you've no answer to that question?

Echo chambers do nobody any good. They just reinforce people's views and prejudices.

That's why the 'bullshit' thread was good. There was good debate from a range of voices. Not echo chamber. No one group dominating. Voices from all sides.

ego I do, however we do ask people in a non confrontational way to explain non-gender critical views and either they vanish or they start shouting "TERF" at us.
Jack Munros recent thread about "what is a woman?" being a case in point.
The contributions you, miranda and Helen made on the bullshit threads were very measured and interesting. However didn't really help explain the TRA "A woman is anyone who feels like a woman" position. I assume because that isn't your view either.
buffy did a great post about why the woman=feeling, woman=biology camps are incompatible. I guess that's what I feel too.

"Not everyone on MN uses it to have their awareness raised about anything. They are fine with their level of awareness as it is."

Of course not. Some people are just perfect the way they are and know everything there is to be known.

Then don't open the threads that are clearly trans

And if you inadvertently click on one, then click on the Back button

There, solved that for you

"Where else do we find a forum that is not an echo chamber"
"Do you ever wonder if the trans threads themselves on here are an echo chamber rather than a debate with a range of voices?"

Do you ever wonder how pointless it is to answer a question with a question?

Not everyone on MN uses it to have their awareness raised about anything

MN is good for raising awareness of issues. But people should be aware that 'debates' and 'issues' are more complex than first seems and that not everything people say is strictly accurate.

I am sure most people know that - but 'just because it was on the internet does not make it true' - no matter how many times people say it.

Not everyone on MN uses it to have their awareness raised about anything. They are fine with their level of awareness as it is.

Where else do we find a forum that is not an echo chamber

Do you ever wonder if the trans threads themselves on here are an echo chamber rather than a debate with a range of voices?

"MN is not the only "safe space" on the internet to discuss these issues. There are quite a few."

Please share. Where else do we find a forum that is not an echo chamber, has a large number of members, and allows questioning transactivist dogma such as "Transwomen are women, period"?

"As for raising awareness, what that means is "sitting in my house fucking about on the web"

Yes, sometimes people raise awareness on the internet. It is a surprisingly efficient tool for reaching out to individuals whom one would otherwise never be in contact with.

Your problem with that is...?

"stop pretending that you are educating anyone or making a difference"

I wouldn't take credit personally, but there is no doubt (none whatsoever) that MN threads have indeed educated people and made a huge difference to how they see these issues.

Check out recent posts by Hex and Page on this very thread for examples.

Or you can continue to condescend and dismiss, I guess.

I'm another who would like to thank those who were "dicking about on the internet" and helped me realise why we need to continue talking about this. It was the IOC threads on here that made me start thinking. And I also wouldn't have seen them if they were hidden away.

Stephonknee is creepy and I'm sure there's child protection issues there. I don't understand why labelling oneself as "trans" means you get to talk about your sexual kinks to journalists, ugh. I'd feel much better about TRAs if they would distance themselves from those kind of people.

Apologies for the gender trender link but the original source has been removed. Maybe stefonknee realised talking about getting pregnant from anal sex with your "adoptive father" was alienating people from her trans struggles.

gendertrender.wordpress.com/2015/11/29/transwoman-stefonknee-wolscht-lives-life-as-a-six-year-old-girl/

Threads in chat get deleted after 90 days so people end up repeating stuff as they can't find it when it was posted before.
And a lot of people won't post on feminism or have it hidden, I think AIBU is the same.
I don't know what the answer is, I don't think a trans topic is it though.

What is clear is that a lot of people want us to shut up about it

Chat is always available for you to start a thread. I don't think anyone is going to ask you to shut up. Just respect the Talk guidelines from MN.

I think few, if any people are telling anyone to shut up about this.

What is clear is that a lot of people want us to shut up about it. And the hiding thread reason is bollocks.

MN is the only safe place for me to gain a feminist perspective on this.

It really, really isn't, you know.