I Would Like To Propose A Solution To The Trans Threads Problem

Fela - I'm talking about the trans threads, not feminism or feminism threads in general.

And if you read those threads you'll find examples of all of that - including the whole of MNHQ being accused of being handmaidens on the 'thoughts on MN response to the spartacus thread'.

It seems to be fairly common unfortunately, but part of the issue is that Ada was also in a specific LGBT representation role and was allowed to behave that way and behave abusively to lesbian woman and this went unchallenged by Edinburgh Uni (until they tweeted about police, actually)

hex I am not a lesbian but I believe it is a mainstream view that is putting lesbians off going to lesbian nights and joining dating apps.

you don't have to read this thread you know but if you don't agree you must be a bit thick/selfish/deluded/a man/a handmaiden' attitude that those threads are all about, it's swiftly moved to feminism chat..
That's just utter bollocks. I'm fed up of 1) feminists being made out to be bigots for question things that may damage women's rights 2) that we call people handmaiden routinely 3) that the feminist board is an echo chamber where we retreat to pat each other on the back. Total hogwash. I've seen threads move from FWR to chat (including the Ada Wells stuff that started this whole thing) but very rare it's the other way round.
Stop trying to blinker people to what's going on by pretending it's all down to feminists.

I've read much of this issue on the threads about Ade/Nate and all that they had to say, much of it hateful - that is what I'm wary of but is he really representative of all TA's? Is his views on Lesbians mainstream?

Yes the bullying and coercing to have sex is terrible.

When I talk about the harm to lesbians I'm also talking about the pressure to transition. Nearly all the older lesbians I know say that they would have been vulnerable to that if the trans movement had been as big when they were young as it is now. Young lesbians are being told that they are men and encouraged to have body parts removed and take body changing hormones with questionable safety records. Lesbians are being erased by all this neoliberal gender crap. I care about that. The stories of women who have gone on to detransition are so sad. I think this phenomenon is more widespread in the US and I sincerely hope that it doesn't get a foothold in the UK. The only way to stop it (and the transing of children) though is for people to speak out. And by people I mean women - I think it is women who will stop the madness.

Lesbions were front and centre of all womens rights movements, now it's our turn to give a shiney shit, even if it doesn't directly affect us, yet.

The language that I hear being used by educators convinces me that this will become an issue for people as their children become swept up in this movement.

I've just posted on another thread that as a lifelong ally to lesbians it was becoming aware of the horrifying way men were using trans status to bully and coerce them into sex that crystallized my opposition to the TA agenda.

The cotton ceiling scandal kicked off in 2012, and I already had misgivings then, partly due to personal experience. Now, as the movement and its adherents have snowballed, I see TA as the most serious attack on women's rights in a 100 years.

Good post smashing

I get not giving "a shiny shite" about things that don't directly affect you in your day to day life. We are all selfish about loads of issues that impact on others but that we are lucky enough not to have to concern ourselves with. Not the most likeable of attitudes but definitely very common. That to me is what this thread is about.

I was recently on a thread on a different discussion website on which straight women were being given a bit if a hard time for not caring about transgenderism. The lesbian women there were pretty upset with the lack of interest from straight women in the damage that is being done to lesbian spaces, culture and lesbians themselves by the trans movement.

They were pretty upset that straight women don't seem to give a shit that their lesbian sisters are the ones currently being targeted with a lot of trans aggression and appropriation.

One of these women said that straight women would start to care when the trans movement started to impact on their children. I think that is probably true.

I wanted to post a defense of straight women's apathy/lack of interest/lack of awareness but I didn't really have a leg to stand on so had no material with which to write my post.

Women's rights owes so much to lesbianism and lesbian feminism - IMO it's pretty shitty to not care about lesbians being thrown under the trans bus. The trans movement is deeply lesbophobic (and homophobic). I don't want a trans topic for this reason. For me what gets called "trans" threads are not trans threads they are "women" threads and as such belong on the main boards of a female dominated discussion forum.

On a different note, I suspect the creation of a trans subject would open MN up to being attractive to TRAs so I would be careful what you wish for. In the eyes of a lot of people, great swathes of MN, its threads and its posters are transphobic (I'm talking about stuff like childbirth, menopause, female biology stuff). If I were MNHQ the last thing I would want to do is raise my head above the radar by creating a trans topic. Our reputation for being a load of mummies wittering on about mummy stuff is useful.

6 foot 4 man in a woman's changing room making me feel mighty uncomfortable.

How often has that actually happened to you, MyCat? It's never happened to me, nor has anyone I know ever complained of it happening to them. I'm sure that I have often shared a Ladies' with a trans woman but it's never impinged on me one iota.

I do think this is becoming quite big with school kids though. I have a friend going through it an older teenage child and it is really fucked up. So much peer pressure, internet pressure, totally surrounding themselves in a trans/gender non conforming bubble. Not exaggerating to say it's like being sucked into a cult - in her child's case anyway. Child now talking about hormones and possible surgery. My friend is 100 % sure her child is not trans - just caught up in it by the people she surrounds herself with.
This is the problem for me. Poor kids.

Agree EGO. Lots of talk on this thread about how it's important to be 'raising awareness' but on that thread when responders don't agree that the sky is falling in and the OP isn't getting back up with the 'you don't have to read this thread you know but if you don't agree you must be a bit thick/selfish/deluded/a man/a handmaiden' attitude that those threads are all about, it's swiftly moved to feminism chat..

How can any topic affect women more than the actual definition of women?

Breastfeeding rights at work? Not an issue if men can breastfeed is it? No sex discrimination.

Women in STEM? Not a problem if you just hire transwomen who had the benefit of male privilege in school and being praised for doing well in maths. and bonus they can't get just go and get pregnant like the gross breeding people.

6 foot 4 man in a woman's changing room making me feel mighty uncomfortable. Well they could call themselves Candi so I best not risk committing a hate crime and saying 'no men allowed' or asking management to get rid of Candi.

It's kind of ironic that a current thread that was in AIBU discussing 'trans issues' just got moved to FWR when the thread became a proper debate with a range of views instead of an echo chamber of responses.

You know. This whole trans debate probably won't affect me personally.

I haven't been raped or abused so i can probably deal with males or transwomen in the loo or changing room - if i was alone that might be different though and i'm fairly strong and physically confident.

I'm older and cynical so less open to peer pressure and trends like our kids can be.

i am not girl or young woman competeing at higher level sports.

I have only sons (though assuming that of course) so they wont be that affected anyway unlike girls might be.

I do think this is becoming quite big with school kids though. I have a friend going through it an older teenage child and it is really fucked up. So much peer pressure, internet pressure, totally surrounding themselves in a trans/gender non conforming bubble. Not exaggerating to say it's like being sucked into a cult - in her child's case anyway. Child now talking about hormones and possible surgery. My friend is 100 % sure her child is not trans - just caught up in it by the people she surrounds herself with.

that not that's

Judy no demanding from me.

Dione sources of info that I then go on to research for myself. MN is a good starting point for me - of course you cannot trust everything that's you read here, that's a given.

Venus, I don't think you've read the opening post properly if you think it's pompous. Bambambini, it's very easy to avoid giving your real name in internet discussion forums. And no, I'm not worried that anyone is ever going to call me a "menstruator".

Dione

Given that we're all of us just "dicking about on the Internet" it's interesting that you started such a pompously self-righteous thread. I hope you got what you wanted from it.

gah pressed post too soon sorry...

this jarring & reductive language is a direct result of needing to be inclusive of the trans community.

Are the women who think this issue is not affecting their lives happy with being called 'menstruators'?
Because that is what the influential US organisation Planned Parenthood is calling people affected by the tampon tax.

twitter.com/msolis14/status/772138966174892032

I don't feel safe discussing it under my real name. Seen folk being insulted, threatened, people being targeted and had their bosses harrassed with demands for the person the be sacked etc. I'd be frightened of a possible backlash.