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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Thoughts on MNHQ's response to the Spartacus thread

991 replies

OlennasWimple · 30/08/2016 22:23

As the Spartacus thread is about to reach capacity, here's a new thread to discuss MNHQ's response to the issues raised on that thread and in a few other places over the last week or so.

is lesphobic to insist that a lesbian likes penis. Feck off with that shite.
Add message | Report | Message poster KateMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 30-Aug-16 21:08:00
Hello all

Thanks for all your input on this - we've been listening and thinking hard.

Couple of quick points to clear up: it's actually not the case that people have been banned solely for misgendering - it will have been part of a broader discussion here about whether that poster is able to stick to the rules generally.

We must admit to being slightly taken aback at being cast, by some, as the evil slave-baiting Roman republic in this grin - as lots of you have pointed out, Mumsnet remains one of the few places where these issues can be discussed at all. It would have been much, much easier (both in terms of the resource and the toll on our moderators' sanity!) to shut down the debate as others have done, but instead we are working hard to find a realistic balance between free speech and being a space which welcomes everyone.

From our perspective, the whole issue is pretty much covered by our Talk Guidelines. If people are using sex-at-birth pronouns to provoke, inflame, or belittle, then that's against the rules and will usually have to go. If it happens as part of an otherwise broadly respectful (even if heated) discussion, we look at it in that context and take a view.

Some of you have pointed out a disjunct between allowing posts which mirror mainstream scientific thinking, while asking MNers not to describe a trans woman as 'he'. We can see your point on this,and also accept that there is a fair amount of dodgy stuff on the trans side that can rightly be described as anti-feminist and regressive - but what we'd ask you to think about is the impact on the parent who's not an activist, and likely isn't even posting, but whose adult child is transitioning, or who is doing so themselves. Would they feel belittled, mocked or attacked? Would they think Mumsnet was not for them? If so, we're going to have to remove it. It's a fudge, but it's the best we can do at this stage.

In all but the most extreme headline-grabbing cases, we do think it's possible to debate the core principles without referring to individuals in a way which will cause hurt. Most of you have said that when talking to a trans person face-to-face you wouldn't insist on using birth pronouns or names - and generally, on this and other issues, we encourage people to treat others with the same courtesy they'd use in real life. For every MNer who posts on a thread there are likely to be ten who are lurking - statistically, some of those will be trans or love someone who is, and we need to take account of them too.

We hope that makes our thinking a bit clearer overall. Do continue to tell us your thoughts - it's probably unrealistic to think that this issue will be quickly resolved here or across society as a whole, but it would be brilliant if MN could be part of the solution, we think.

MNHQ

OP posts:
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19
ErrolTheDragon · 06/09/2016 23:18

I think her autocorrect has been on the gin! But it was comprehensible. Smile

JedRambosteen · 06/09/2016 23:15

You been on the gin this evening, Winchester?

WinchesterWoman · 06/09/2016 23:13

Minute by minute not Monte
And mners not miners
Dear oh lor oh dear

WinchesterWoman · 06/09/2016 23:11

They're bright enough. They don't have to yell about it. And the're so open minded and tolerant. Sceptical voice here and there and it all adds up.

There's no coherency to the transactivist argument so momentum will be lost. I don't think the new laws will be enacted. The mm massive could almost guarantee that. Imagine the debate in the commons. And the running minute by Monte commentary as miners disabuse the MPs of whatever misconceived bilge they come out with in an effort be on point. MN is like a crowd sourced informational goldmine, shot through with evidence and most importantly, killer logic.

JedRambosteen · 06/09/2016 23:06

Was that aimed at me Bambambini? If so, you needn't worry. It went very much along the line we take about religion, that people have differing belief systems/views & that whilst we might not always agree with others' viewpoints, we should respect that they sincerely believe them & be civil in our dealings with them. It was a looooong time ago in terms of how things have moved on with this agenda. We might have a different conversation next time it comes up, because I'm seeing very little respect or civility towards women from TAs.

Bambambini · 06/09/2016 23:01

I honestly dont feel confident or safe supporting the gender critical viewpoint in public. I definitely wouldn't want my kids risking it.

WinchesterWoman · 06/09/2016 23:00

Yes well it's fear that allows insanity to prevail

Bambambini · 06/09/2016 22:58

I'd be worried my kids wentboff half cocked spouting gender critical ideas - that they would be eviserated.

PortiaCastis · 06/09/2016 22:58

Funded fuckin funded!!!
I've just seen brave men and women go out to save others and they volunteer to save others with equipment funded by CHARITY
This world is fucked up completely

WinchesterWoman · 06/09/2016 22:55

I mean a trans class colleague, not my ones

WinchesterWoman · 06/09/2016 22:54

Ha Jed the trouble is the young ones still believe in magic

WinchesterWoman · 06/09/2016 22:53

Late teens with trans person at school

I was always to busy to enforce any gender norms, they always did what they wanted including a heck of a lot of stuff that now, people would latch on to

JedRambosteen · 06/09/2016 22:52

I was discussing the reaction to Germaine Greer's Newsnight interview last autumn in the car with DH & was asked about it by DS1
(Why are they never really listening to their ipods when they ought to be?). What an interesting conversation that ended up being...

WinchesterWoman · 06/09/2016 22:50

Can't link but can help you google

Washington Times george soros transgender
Open society foundation us program national society for transgender equality
Hang on

Bambambini · 06/09/2016 22:48

Ok, can't say i've had this trans conversation with my kids. How old are yours?

WinchesterWoman · 06/09/2016 22:45

Because we talk about it :/ they don't know why people can't do whatever they want, without feeling they must pretend to be something they aren't.

Bambambini · 06/09/2016 22:44

Obviously, pointless posturing every time.

IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat · 06/09/2016 22:43

Yes Winchester, I was interested. I so believe it's funded. Can you give me some links please?

Bambambini · 06/09/2016 22:43

How can you becso sure about your kids? Can't believe someone just posted "not my kids".

PortiaCastis · 06/09/2016 22:42

Meanwhile there are at present two lifeboats a helicopter and the coastguard right now trying to find a person overboard.and showing courage.
Priorities, saving lives or pointless posturing

WinchesterWoman · 06/09/2016 22:41

Not my kids, and you know all children aren't all that stupid. This will be a brief candle of madness, like eugenics, that will blow out. Sadly with some very damaged children. I hope they all sue the Tavistock.

WinchesterWoman · 06/09/2016 22:38

HP is fully signed up to all the nonsense. By the way was there a conversation about who's funding this? George Soros is putting up lots of cash for TRA group if you're interested.

Bambambini · 06/09/2016 22:37

Yes it's vacuous and an obsolutely awful one sided rant (or article), but this is what's listened to, this is the opinion young people/ your kids are reading and forming their ideas from. Gender critical folk are on the wrong side of histoty. The battle is already lost because of the likes of these crappy articles being allowed to spew hate and misinformation.

WinchesterWoman · 06/09/2016 22:34

HP had a sob story about a man trying to change sex (or whateva, self declare who knows) and he couldn't because the mean old prison system wouldn't let him. Huffpost's finest failed to mention that he was in jail for sex abuse .

Iggi999 · 06/09/2016 22:32

Someone tweeting about this is a ftt who identifies as a boy and is currently six months pg.