Thoughts on MNHQ's response to the Spartacus thread

She had breasts, a high pitched voice, a curvy waist, every feature you would expect of the female sex.

No tits, no waist and quite a low voice. Still female. Still Spartacus. Thanks.

Bloody hell am in a phone.

The trans activism movement has misogyny coursing through its veins.

Dear MNHQ

Let's take one banned poster. Posie Parker

From memory she was banned for saying she would misgender, on that same thread she also said she would call TWs she to their faces, and on threads out of respect but not if someone requested to be called " they". Apparently numerous people reported her posts....

I understand pp was a sharp tongued character but talk guidelines don't stipulate you have to be likeable.

So given that your email, and I've seen it, said it was due to numerous reports and specifically the threat to misgender I'm aghast that you've failed to address whether you feel there is a significant level of misogyny coursing through its veins and whether you stand by women who are being pushed to the back of every other queue?

Oh, and where is the Talk Guideline which states that suggesting autogynephilia is a motivator for transpeople will get your post deleted please??

Seriously, awful response.

Basically 'yes, we know some of these men are utter bastards, but could all you women pipe down, in case some - possibly mythical - other parents are watching.

I feel gaslighted. MN, what the actual???

The vast majority of men who say they are women do not have genital surgery. Most take hormones, have silicon breast implants and a penis. Is that person really supposed to be accepted as a woman by the rest of us?

A vagina cupcake..well you learn something new everyday.

But yeah, this is why women are speaking out about this rubbish. And no it does not make them TERFS (something I have only ever seen used as an insult...often followed by 'should go and die' or similar), it just means they are concerned about how the world would be heading if certain people got their way, which they have gotten until now (meaning TAs, not transsexual people)

For me the uproar about a university women's society event that got totally overrun by TRAS complaining that vagina cupcakes were transphobic illustrates that yes, women are not going to be able to talk about their anatomy except in vague ways completely divorced from their sex.
Unfortunately the FB page got taken down but it was shocking to see a feminist event get totally shut down purely for linking vaginas with women.
Here's a TRA sympathetic write up of the events greentea2177.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/vagina-cupcake-gate/amp/

One facility does not provide this, they need to fight for their own facilities for their own benefit - lumping them in with women is detrimental for their actual needs.

Beyond your comment actually makes sense, rather than the ones on this topic I have read previously. But whilst there are no trans specific services, where should they go?

I certainly would, ItsAllGoingToBeFine

As for the response to MNHQ's statement. Meh. It's so wishy washy and ill defined I can't see anything much changing. Someone says they feel a post is hate speech and/or a Personal Attack on the subject of preferred pronouns or biology and they are going to delete and ban just the same as always.
As for the supposed 'discussion' around Banning......bollocks does that happen.

If transwomen want to campaign for centres, support and refuges then fine, crack on with that then

And I'm sure women would support them in that.

If transwomen want to campaign for centres, support and refuges then fine, crack on with that then. Just don't expect to use resources that are for women.

As it stands at the moment, transpeople are gaining popularity (as in there are more and more, not that its a popular 'choice' or anything). As such, it would be worthwhile to set up crisis centres for those people. Not to extend womens centres to include men. This is surely the solution and one that everyone could be happy with? Everyone gets the care they need, and noone feels threatened?

To (sorry can't look) whoever it was upthread who said Mtt need access to women's rape centres. A woman who has been raped needs counselling and medical care, but this is specific to her body and can include abortion and counselling around that. A transwoman who has been raped also needs counselling and medical care. But this medical care will be different, if post op they may need access to a plastic surgeon to fix any damage and will also need different counselling around this. If pre op they will have different needs again.

One facility does not provide this, they need to fight for their own facilities for their own benefit - lumping them in with women is detrimental for their actual needs.

we were definitely not in a relationship - I prefer blondes if I'm going to date a woman! Your post did make me LOL though!

I think I may have read that post wrong. I took it to be, you were with Natasha rather than living with her, as such my lesbian assumption. Sorry

To call her anything but female just feels awfully disrespectful and rude. She is a woman in every way possible. I met her 10 years ago and she is very glad she had gender reassignment surgery, she waited 8 years to make sure it was the right decision. And for her it absolutely was. If most on here met her, or were speaking about her, I expect the correct pronouns and such would be adhered to out of respect. The issue here (for me) is the trans gender movement has been hijacked by a bunch of men who simply 'self identifiy' as women and expect to be able to impose their will on women because of this. This is simply not on and tbh, I would expect transsexuals and women alike to be standing up saying that this is wrong and shouldn't be happening. As a lesbian too (sorry but in this situation your sexuality is kind of important) I would assume you would find the way you are described by said men disgusting and I do wonder if you have ever looked up the term cotton ceiling? These men think they have a right to whatever the fuck they wish, including your body. You are now transphobic for refusing to such a lady penis...hows that? Its a horrible situation all around but the standing up against it is necessary right now due to how the movement is. Before all of this stupidness, you would have been hard pushed to find anyone who had an issue with transsexuals. Unfortunately as things now stand, these disgusting misogynistic men are...identifying...for want of a better word, as transsexuals and noone is willing to speak up against it for fear of not being 'PC' and this is when the shit hits the fan as if noone speaks up and it is assumed that a 'guy in a frock' is the same as a genuine transexual...transsexual people are tarred with the same brush as the blokes. Which isn't right, but thats how it goes. I know ONE transsexual and speak to a few online, but not one of them feels they have the right to impose on womens spaces..they do not wish to make people feel uncomfortable, they simply wish to live out their lives in peace, they especially do not think they have the right to guilt trip and label lesbians into shagging them. These people are caught in the crossfire here...which is why the trans-agenda is damaging for both women, and trans people alike. It is unfortunate that it has ended like this, but I honestly cannot see another way out, besides women just rolling over and allowing the wishes of men to deplete their own rights.

Unless you speak very oddly you would not use pronouns when talking to a person, and I have no issue in using a persons chosen name.

But you might in their presence, e.g. in a three or four way conversation - e.g. "When Jan says XXX, I think she means ..." It would be rude to say "he" in that context and I think it's equally rude if she's not present. And it would be mad to say "When Jan says XXX, I think Jan means ..." or "When Jan says XXX, I think they mean ..."

If transwomen are entitled to access sex-segregated toilets set aside for women they then demand access to other women-only spaces.

It's not how it happens, though, is it? No-one has to ask permission to use a designated toilet - indeed, I've known women very firmly walk into the Gents at public venues where there are long queues in the Ladies'. If you're using something like a refuge or a Rape Crisis Centre, you will very quickly have to engage with someone who can and does say that trans women aren't allowed in. I know the concern is that we might reach a point when discrimination laws don't allow that, but given that it is not even a formal proposal as yet via a Green Paper and the strong likelihood is that exceptions like this would be written in, I'll worry about it only if or when it looks more likely.

I sure as hell hate many actions of some sects of society, however that doesn't make it OK to actively discriminate against them!

Late coming on today and still reading through, but actually WTF at this? Noone is discriminating against anyone in saying female only spaces should remain female only spaces as females need thier female only spaces and men should not be able to infiltrate them?! Is this the thinking of the TAs and such, that is it discriminating to not allow men to do whatever the fuck they please? I have no issue with trans people and I think most just want to go about their lives in peace. The minority shout up and cause trouble that is not needed. Me saying I would not be comfortable changing clothes in a room of guys is a problem now because those guys could simply 'identify as' (ie. 'think they are') women in their pink brains. Bollocks.

However nice attempt to shut down the conversation. I am starting to see the tactics used now.

LurkingParent

So happy for you and your daughter

Male socialization is like white socialization, Notme. Males may reject it but it affects and privileges them in ways they may not even notice. Male privilege is so pervasive it's like water for fish. You only recognize it if you actually look for it. "Living as a woman", which is a totally meaningless phrase in my opinion, does nothing to remove male privilege. No. To have any chance of rejecting male socialization, any man, regardless of gender presentation, needs to spend significant time and analysis to examine its role in their life.

"Identifying" as a woman does nothing to eradicate male privilege. Indeed in many cases it seems, oddly enough, that TAs express more male socialization than most ordinary men. None of the men in my immediate circle would dream of claiming that they understood or could speak for women's experience of living in their sexed bodies., , ,

Notme, the whole point of the toilets thing is that it's consistently used as the thin end of the wedge. If transwomen are entitled to access sex-segregated toilets set aside for women they then demand access to other women-only spaces.

Thank you, I'll take clever and understanding! Though I was mainly just lucky to grow up surrounded 70s firecracker feminists!

ItsAllGoingToBeFine I think a lot of the TA movement does use cult-like methods. Critical thinking is shut down and questions ignored. It's very much pushed that salvation will come from transitioning. It's important that we a free to express this opinion.

TwatbadgingCuntfuckery I'm not sure it's feminism that's failed children who want to transition. It could be argued that it's society as a whole. However, I've noticed, over the last 4 years, the change in clinicians views. For children it used to be very much a sit back wait and see attitude. Studies have shown a range of between 66% - 90% of children who present as transgender grow out of it and present as their biological gender, but the majority will be either gay, lesbian or bisexual.

There's been a shift in the way children are treated at the Tavistock clinic. It's no longer a case of waiting and seeing, it seems to be more you're trans lock stock and barrel. For that I lay the blame on TAs and trans charities, who push the 'they must transition or they'll die' rhetoric.

Let's all just shut up then?