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Original poster

MNHQ - if you are going to contribute your thoughts to the trans debate, can you use a new thread

170 replies

Ego147 · 29/08/2016 10:31

Because there are people who are part of the debate but have hidden and don't want to contribute to the threads you want to post on.

So please can you post your thoughts on a new thread. It would be open, its own thread and clear to see - rather than hidden in a post on a thread.

And I do appreciate that you have a lot of issues here to think about and you are not going to please everyone. Whatever decision you come to will be 'the wrong one for some'.

Enjoy your and at the staff meeting you will inevitably be having about this.

OP posts:

AskBasil · 29/08/2016 18:16

My ironymeter's just broken

OscarDeLaYenta · 29/08/2016 18:11

MNHQ have said that they will post responses on the Spartacus thread. I disagree with that for the reasons Ego has said. An individual who is personally affected by these issues and is concerned to know the MN response should not be made to have to wade through what is now 100's of posts that may be upsetting.

And in any case, the Spartacus thread may be full by the time MNHQ posts their response.

OscarDeLaYenta · 29/08/2016 18:05

Ego - 100%.

I think MNHQ need to put it on a separate thread, and can also link to it on the threads that are still live at that time. I don't think that re-posting the statement on each of the live threads is sensible, as it will just result in fragmented and/or repetitive discussion.

Despite the intransigence of my position on this subject, people have the right to both hide threads and be vested in this issue. This is not an issue like any other and people need to be able to protect themselves as they see fit.

Mrsmorton · 29/08/2016 13:21

The irony of pulling someone up for derailing your thread.

Original poster

Ego147 · 29/08/2016 13:01

askbasil

With due respect - this is a thread about where MNHQ's response to the trans issue and debates should go.

There's plenty of threads available to discuss the valid concerns you've raised.

OP posts:

AskBasil · 29/08/2016 12:55

"Certainly a lot of stuff said on here would not be allowed on many other forums."

Yes, women have been really silenced elsewhere on the net. When we are allowed to discuss the trans issue openly, many more women become aware of what is actually going on and realise the implications for our rights.

No wonder so much effort is put into silencing us.

Original poster

Ego147 · 29/08/2016 12:54

Not least because there is bound to be debate on whatever they post, and it will be a complete PITA to have that scattered across multiple threads

I should imagine their response will provoke fresh debate.

OP posts:

Original poster

Ego147 · 29/08/2016 12:53

That's not really "laid out" then if it's hidden in a thread somewhere that someone's got to search for

It's somewhere. There was a similar debate and lots of threads a few years ago. MNHQ did start a thread on site stuff discussing what transphobia was in their view and there were lots of comments.

It has dropped down somewhere. I'm surprised that there isn't a link on the site guidelines.

But there's similar debates on here about ageism, disablism, issues about people and SEN debates etc. Definitions are subjective

OP posts:

MilkTwoSugarsThanks · 29/08/2016 12:48

That's not really "laid out" then if it's hidden in a thread somewhere that someone's got to search for!

OlennasWimple · 29/08/2016 12:46

I agree that there are so many different parallel threads running right now that when MNHQ does have something to report it should do it on a fresh thread (may be with comments on each relevant thread with a link to the main one). Not least because there is bound to be debate on whatever they post, and it will be a complete PITA to have that scattered across multiple threads.

Original poster

Ego147 · 29/08/2016 12:39

MNHQ are never going to "lay out" their policy, and if they did it would be done similar to "Talk Guidlines", not in a thread

They have already. They have started a thread before on What is transphobia?

I am sure someone could link to it. It was a few years aog.

OP posts:

Original poster

Ego147 · 29/08/2016 12:38

MNHQ have done the same in the past. They have started a new thread on 'their thoughts' - and posted a link to that thread on the many trans threads going on at the time.

Would that be a good compromise? MNHQ posting a comment saying - this is our response, it's on a new thread?

And that comment could go on the many trans threads running at the moment

OP posts:

MilkTwoSugarsThanks · 29/08/2016 12:37

MNHQ are never going to "lay out" their policy, and if they did it would be done similar to "Talk Guidlines", not in a thread.

paxillin · 29/08/2016 12:37

I would hide all trans threads if I was trans. I can't think of another issue where one site is so hostile to the other.

Brexit comes close, but there is hostility on both sites, a thread is quickly 50:50 or at least 30:70. On trans issues it is 784 posters who are not trans vs 2 who are. And the 2 don't argue for male rapists in women's prisons, but ask to be called "she" and not to be mocked as a man in a dress.

Original poster

Ego147 · 29/08/2016 12:34

So someone's started a thread, there are lots and lots of people on that thread

There is 6 threads discussing the trans issue. Not just one

And very egotistical to think your position is more important than anyone else's

Or maybe it would be good to have a proper thread started by MNHQ where they lay out their policy?

OP posts:

MilkTwoSugarsThanks · 29/08/2016 12:31

So someone's started a thread, there are lots and lots of people on that thread, they'd like a response from MNHQ on that thread... sounds reasonable to me.

Why don't you email MNHQ and ask them to email the response to you? Honestly it's very "special snowflake-y" to insist they separate it out on a new thread so your sensibilities aren't affected. And very egotistical to think your position is more important than anyone else's.

Original poster

Ego147 · 29/08/2016 12:22

I do feel for MNHQ - I bet they genuinely have no idea what to do and it does seem that MN has become a go to place for some pretty open debates on the 'trans issue' rather than elsewhere where things are more regulated. Certainly a lot of stuff said on here would not be allowed on many other forums.

Caught between a rock and a hard place.

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IPityThePontipines · 29/08/2016 12:19

Bert - have you read the trans threads on here? Because it tends not to be the people arguing against the existence of trans people/being gender critical who get called vile.

And opposing views are generally told to get back to tumblr, or of late, to not debate on a support thread.

Original poster

Ego147 · 29/08/2016 12:15

As you can see, there were 6 different threads discussing the trans issue, so it would be easy to overlook any comments by MNHQ

Only 6

OP posts:

IPityThePontipines · 29/08/2016 12:14

In fairness, this was Site Stuff the other day:

As you can see, there were 6 different threads discussing the trans issue, so it would be easy to overlook any comments by MNHQ.

MNHQ - if you are going to contribute your thoughts to the trans debate, can you use a new thread

Original poster

Ego147 · 29/08/2016 12:12

I've not really thought about it, just didn't know whether you were aware of that function

I have been a few threads where MNHQ have added their views

I just think it would be better that once MNHQ have gathered their thoughts - and rather them than me - that they start a new thread on Site Stuff expressing them - rather than putting them somewhere in a thread. I think that when they outline their views - there will be things people want to say - and if it was elsewhere, it would derail whatever thread they post on.

I also think MNHQ should say something on here.

OP posts:

ChardonnayKnickertonSmythe · 29/08/2016 12:12

Support thread was started because posters were supporting a banned poster, so MNHQ clarifying their position won't be a derail, to will be an answer, a logical conclusion of the thread.

BertrandRussell · 29/08/2016 12:11

Is this another case of if you don't follow the orthodoxy I will call you "vile" (why is it always vile, by the way) and a transphobe and refuse to debate with you?

ageingrunner · 29/08/2016 12:09

I've not really thought about it, just didn't know whether you were aware of that function

Original poster

Ego147 · 29/08/2016 12:08

Couldn't you just follow the 'mumsnet have commented on this thread' link, and be taken straight to their comment without having to skip through anything

Because it goes to their first comment

And secondly - that thread is a support thread. Surely MNHQ posting their views on trans issues is derailing.

Why don't you think a new thread started by MNHQ is a good idea - a fresh thread started by them - rather than derailing a support thread?

Surely you think everyone should be able to see what they say on a new thread?

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